Page 17 of 22 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 215

Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #161
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:08 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,157

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No. Prejudice is not about hate. Prejudice is about ignorance. Prejudice is believing one group is superior to another without any reason or evidence to back it up. That is exactly what Taylor is. Taylor believes same sex couples are inferior to opposite sex couples. Those aren't my words, but Taylor's words. Taylor bases this belief only on the preconceived idea that since same sex couples can't make children, they are inherently inferior. It does not matter that same sex couples can provide just as stable and loving home for children as opposite sex couples. It does not matter than same sex couples can adopt or use a sperm donor or surrogate. They are inferior simply because they cannot make children and they are not the "ideal". Even though there are biological parents who abuse, neglect, and abandon their children, those parents are more "ideal" than a loving same sex couple simply because they are the biological parents. That is the nature of Taylor's prejudice. Not hate, but clear ignorance.
    This is an incorrect characterization, I wish I had time to rebut tonight but it's already 2:10. Will return to discuss tomorrow!

  2. #162
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,121

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Now you're making no sense. In the first you accuse me of holding one couple inferior to the other, in the next you accuse me of wanting to put them in a separate but equal institution. Which is it?
    Apparently you missed the word, "allegedly". Alleged means declared but not proven. I'll post it again for ya.

    That aside, the fact is you hold the preconceived notion that same sex couples are inferior to opposite sex couples and thus need to be designated in an allegedly "separate but equal" institution. You support forcing same sex couples into a lower social and cultural standing simply because they can't make babies. Not on the basis of their parenting ability but on the basis that they can't do what two horny opposite sex teenagers in the back seat of a car can unintentionally do. Furthermore, you support denying the children of same sex parents the benefits inherent in the social and cultural standing of marriage. I really can't find any word for that other than prejudice.

  3. #163
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:08 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,157

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Taylor believes same sex couples are inferior to opposite sex couples. Those aren't my words, but Taylor's words.
    I want to clear up this point before I go to bed. This is not my belief and I didn't remember saying this but I did here when I carelessly copied your wording in responding to something you said. The post preceding that one correctly states my position that we we place greater importance on opposite-sex unions than same-sex unions.

    I have no basis to say - nor do I believe - that one relationship is superior to another based on sexual orientation. The "superior" relationship is the one that makes you most happy.

  4. #164
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,635

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Dan is a fake conservative!
    Or, rather, one conservative in a sea of different and varying conservatives.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #165
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,121

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I have no basis to say - nor do I believe - that one relationship is superior to another based on sexual orientation. The "superior" relationship is the one that makes you most happy.
    Oh, for pete sake.

    You support forcing same sex couples into the lower social and cultural standing of civil unions simply because they can't make babies. Not on the basis of their parenting ability but on the basis that they can't do what two horny opposite sex teenagers in the back seat of a car can unintentionally do. Furthermore, you support denying the children of same sex parents the benefits inherent in the social and cultural standing of marriage. Sorry, but I can't buy that you view opposite sex couples and same sex couples as equal as long as they are both happy, when you have made it clear that you support policy that designates same sex couples as inferior.

    Don't try to hide your prejudice. Nothing you have said in the posts since you argued that opposite sex couples are superior for their ability to procreate has suggested that you don't hold that notion. You know as well as I do that allowing a definition of marriage that includes same sex couples would not increase or decrease the likelihood of opposite sex couples procreating. The only reason you want to exclude same sex couples from marriage is because they can't procreate, and there is no basis to do that aside from upholding the perceived superior stature of opposite sex couples. If marriage was only about the importance of procreation then the policy would be that nobody who couldn't procreate would be allowed to marry.

    If that is not the case, then tell me why an infertile opposite sex couple is justified in getting married but a same sex couple is not?
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-12-10 at 04:01 AM.

  6. #166
    Rockin' In The Free World
    the makeout hobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Last Seen
    04-24-14 @ 06:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    7,102

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    As a whole, opposite sex unions are superior in that they can produce offspring. What homosexual couple wouldn't want to be able to accomplish that together if they could?
    What about adoption? Any homosexual couple could adopt a kid and raise it like it was their own. I fail to see any difference between that and a straight couple that makes the kid the old fashioned way. Or there's homosexual couples who have children from a previous heterosexual marriage. They can still be just as capable step parents as their straight counterparts.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  7. #167
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Actually Tucker, this is the most important part of my post. If you are going to argue that marriage exists for the benefit of raising children then you need to address this part of my argument...

    You want to hear an interesting fact? 8 to 10 million children in this country are being raised by gay parents or same sex couples. The American Pediatric Association has argued that same sex marriage would greatly benefit those children. I think you just made a superb argument for the institution of same sex marriage in this country.
    I have no reason to address that part of your argument because that's the type of argument SSM proponents should be making. That's what the point of my initial post was. Using gender discrimination doesn't work. This does.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #168
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    8 to 10 million? Sources please. That sounds like a "pulled from my ass" number.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  9. #169
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Tucker if you hold the position that it is irrational to deny same sex couples the right to marry, then don't debate that it is rational.
    I'm debating that in order to promote same-sex marriage, one has to address the legitimate arguments presented by the opposition. To do this, one must get past the gender discrimination argument because their legitimate arguments act as a rebuttal for that by presenting a case for the State's interest in gender-based marriage rules.

    Notice that once I pointed out their legitimate case, you moved away from the gender-discrimination argument and into the raising children argument. IMO, that's where the case for SSM will be won. The argument must be made that these unions should be recognized primarily for the purpose of raising children.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  10. #170
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    8 to 10 million? Sources please. That sounds like a "pulled from my ass" number.
    I edited out the links in my response. He posted this one earlier.

    Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Parents
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

Page 17 of 22 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •