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Thread: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

  1. #121
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    True. A male serial killer in prison can marry a female prostitute off the street. What does it say about our country that they have more right to marry than a loving same sex couple with adopted children?
    That in general, we place greater importance on opposite-sex unions than same-sex unions?

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That in general, we value opposite-sex unions more than same-sex unions?
    And that is what Prop 8 comes down to in the end. Not reason. Not evidence. Not what is best for children. Not what is best for the institution of marriage. Not what is best for this country or the state. No. It comes down to a value judgement. This comes down to the percieved notion that opposite sex unions are inherently superior to same sex unions. And that my friend, is why this is gender discrimination. I rest my case.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    And that is what Prop 8 comes down to in the end. Not reason. Not evidence. Not what is best for children. Not what is best for the institution of marriage. Not what is best for this country or the state. No. It comes down to a value judgement. This comes down to the percieved notion that opposite sex unions are inherently superior to same sex unions. And that my friend, is why this is gender discrimination. I rest my case.
    As a whole, opposite sex unions are superior in that they can produce offspring. What homosexual couple wouldn't want to be able to accomplish that together if they could?

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    As a whole, opposite sex unions are superior in that they can produce offspring. What homosexual couple wouldn't want to be able to accomplish that together if they could?
    Nothing about having the ability to make children imbues a heterosexual couple with the ability to raise them. Two teenagers in a the backseat of a car can make a baby, but that doesn't mean they can raise it. In fact, many same sex couples can provide a loving and stable home for children better than a good share of heterosexual couples can. Same sex couples may not be able to make children, but they can adopt them or use a surrogate or sperm donor.

    You see nothing wrong with the fact that Prop 8 proponents value the ability to make children as superior to the ability to provide a stable and loving home for them?

  5. #125
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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Nothing about having the ability to make children imbues a heterosexual couple with the ability to raise them. Two teenagers in a the backseat of a car can make a baby, but that doesn't mean they can raise it. In fact, many same sex couples can provide a loving and stable home for children better than a good share of heterosexual couples can. Same sex couples may not be able to make children, but they can adopt them or use a surrogate or sperm donor.

    You see nothing wrong with the fact that Prop 8 proponents value the ability to make children as superior to the ability to provide a stable and loving home for them?
    False dilemma. Regardless, the vast majority of people who supported Prop 8 supported civil unions for gay couples that are indistinguishible from marriage in all respects other than name.
    Last edited by Taylor; 08-12-10 at 01:12 AM.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    False dilemma. Regardless, the vast majority of people who supported Prop 8 supported civil unions for gay couples that are indistinguishible from marriage in all respects other than name.
    So thy want to call a rose by another name.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    False dilemma. The vast majority of people who supported Prop 8 supported civil unions for gay couples that are indistinguishible from marriage in all respects other than name.
    No, it is the crux of the matter. The Prop 8 proponents see opposite sex unions as superior to same sex unions so they must designate same sex couples to culturally inferior civil unions. Nobody denies that marriage is symbolically superior than civil unions. The main reason they do so is because they perceive the ability to make children as superior to the ability to provide stable and loving homes for them. A male serial killer in prison can marry a female prostitute working the street, but same sex couples are only allowed to form a culturally inferior civil union that designates nothing other than their inability to make children. How is that justified?

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So thy want to call a rose by another name.
    I'm pointing out that this case isn't about raising kids and creating happy homes, it's about changing the definition of marriage.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm pointing out that this case isn't about raising kids and creating happy homes, it's about changing the definition of marriage.
    The definition of marriage has not changed. It is still about property rights like it always has been.

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    Re: Ted Olson: Same-sex marriage is a conservative value

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The main reason they do so is because they perceive the ability to make children as superior to the ability to provide stable and loving homes for them
    This makes no sense. It's not one or the other. Both groups have "the ability to provide stable and loving homes " only one group has "the ability to make children"

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