View Poll Results: Is this a turning point for Democrats?

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  • Yes

    6 30.00%
  • No

    8 40.00%
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Thread: A Turning Point For Democrats?

  1. #41
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    the track back to a robust economy, and full employment.
    I'll take some of what you're smokin'....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #42
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You cannot have a robust economy without a strong private sector and Obama is destroyng that. No private sector employer is going to hire anyone with the economic agenda of Obama having to be paid for. The trillions added to the debt have to be funded and that means higher taxes, lower economic growth. The Obama agenda is a prescription for failure.
    what about the bush 2, bush 1, and reagan agendas? they all added debt that has to be paid for....or did you forget about this?? like it or not, your preferred side of the aisle is not innocent when it comes to adding debt.....quit pretending that they are, and quit pretending that debt only matters when it is a democrat in office.

  3. #43
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So, let's see, when it suits you the stock market is a barometer of how good the economy is? What affect do you believe 16 million unemployed Americans has on corporate expenses thus profits?Where you equally as excited when Bush had a 14000 stock market?




    There are 7 million less employed today than when Obama took office, bls.gov and you think that is a success? 16 million unemployed or an increase of over 4 million since the stimulus plan took effect and that is a success to you?

    A collapse that apparently Bush created all by himself? Tell us why taxpayers fund Congressional Representatives if it is the President that creates all legislation and unilaterally implements economic policy? Do you realize, probably don't care, but the Democrats controlled Congress and helped get us into this recession. Now with the same Congress and a Democrat empty suit in the WH they have made things worse, higher debt and higher unemployment. Where is your outrage?

    Obama doesn't understand the economy nor do his book smart, street stupid Ivy League educated advisors. We have a public sector economy that is being destroyed and the results speak volumes, but Obama supporters never really cared about results.

    The stimulus plan was designed to be spent on shovel ready projects but instead has been spent to bail out unions and other Democrat constituent groups. Jobs saved or created cannot be quantified but unemployment can.

    After spending over a trillion dollars, taking over GM/Chrysler shouldn't things be better. Companies are hoarding cash because they have lower expenses now due to fewer workers thus higher profits and a fear of higher corporate taxes as well as healthcare costs.

    We live in a free enterprise, capitalistic economy that Obama doesn't understand. The results speak for themselves.
    Okay - the Great Recession began in 2007. It didn't start overnight, though. In reality, it began several years before that. I would argue that every recession since 1980 all led up to the Great Recession as a result of continuous passing of economic policies under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush that created more and more income disparity.



    Note that the two greatest periods of disparity were right before the Great Depression and right before the Great Recession. Tax policies that help concentrate wealth and reward wealth over work lead to hoarding.

    To get the "trickle down" that supply-siders seems to like so much you basically have to force the wealthy to invest and hire.

    I agree that the stimulus wasn't done completely properly. However, all Republicans have done is said they wouldn't have done it all. They complained about extending unemployment benefits without paying for it; but want to make permanent the Bush tax cuts without paying for it. They fought legislation that would have eliminated the loophole that left no estate tax for this calendar year, costing the government $25 - $30 BILLION dollars and didn't pay for it.

    They are also fighting the bill that will give tax breaks to small business owners who hire and make equipment investments. Not because they dislike the legislation, but because they don't want Democrats to get credit for it. It is their goal to bring this nation to its knees while Obama is in office so they can get their claws back on all three houses and continue funneling money to the wealthy who will continue to pay for their campaigns.

    Oh, and by the way: How Ford and GM Turned a Corner -- Seeking Alpha, there's evidence that the auto bailout (with a little help from Toyota's implosion) is actually working. But of course, we'll just bitch about it because maybe it wasn't perfect.

    The economy didn't collapse overnight. It won't be fixed overnight.

  4. #44
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    what about the bush 2, bush 1, and reagan agendas? they all added debt that has to be paid for....or did you forget about this?? like it or not, your preferred side of the aisle is not innocent when it comes to adding debt.....quit pretending that they are, and quit pretending that debt only matters when it is a democrat in office.
    Reagan and GW Bush understood the benefits of a strong private sector that helped fund that debt with a growing economy. Bush with the help of 9/11 and then a Democrat Congress spent too much money but I know of no one that wouldn't take a 1.7 trillion debt of Reagan's over the 3 trillion of Obama's in just two years. Obama isn't growing the private sector economy thus isn't creating jobs or consumer spending to grow the economy enough to fund our debt, that means taxes have to go up and that kills jobs and economic growth. Debt matters whomever is in office but there is such a thing as funding that debt and Obama isn't

  5. #45
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reagan and GW Bush understood the benefits of a strong private sector that helped fund that debt with a growing economy. Bush with the help of 9/11 and then a Democrat Congress spent too much money but I know of no one that wouldn't take a 1.7 trillion debt of Reagan's over the 3 trillion of Obama's in just two years. Obama isn't growing the private sector economy thus isn't creating jobs or consumer spending to grow the economy enough to fund our debt, that means taxes have to go up and that kills jobs and economic growth. Debt matters whomever is in office but there is such a thing as funding that debt and Obama isn't
    hmmm....growing the economy to 'service ' the debt...why did reagan run a deficit at all??

  6. #46
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Okay - the Great Recession began in 2007. It didn't start overnight, though. In reality, it began several years before that. I would argue that every recession since 1980 all led up to the Great Recession as a result of continuous passing of economic policies under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush that created more and more income disparity.



    Note that the two greatest periods of disparity were right before the Great Depression and right before the Great Recession. Tax policies that help concentrate wealth and reward wealth over work lead to hoarding.

    To get the "trickle down" that supply-siders seems to like so much you basically have to force the wealthy to invest and hire.

    I agree that the stimulus wasn't done completely properly. However, all Republicans have done is said they wouldn't have done it all. They complained about extending unemployment benefits without paying for it; but want to make permanent the Bush tax cuts without paying for it. They fought legislation that would have eliminated the loophole that left no estate tax for this calendar year, costing the government $25 - $30 BILLION dollars and didn't pay for it.

    They are also fighting the bill that will give tax breaks to small business owners who hire and make equipment investments. Not because they dislike the legislation, but because they don't want Democrats to get credit for it. It is their goal to bring this nation to its knees while Obama is in office so they can get their claws back on all three houses and continue funneling money to the wealthy who will continue to pay for their campaigns.

    Oh, and by the way: How Ford and GM Turned a Corner -- Seeking Alpha, there's evidence that the auto bailout (with a little help from Toyota's implosion) is actually working. But of course, we'll just bitch about it because maybe it wasn't perfect.

    The economy didn't collapse overnight. It won't be fixed overnight.
    Ford wasn't bailed out and GM repaid some of their funding with additional funding. The economy didn't collapse by Bush policy alone and what Obama is doing isn't helping grow the private sector. That is where the U.S. got its strength and is something Obama doesn't understand and apparently neither do you. Ever run a business, ever invested your own money in business? Invest your own money in a business today and see how much your silent partner gets.

    Stop with the class envy and warfare, this isn't a zero sum game meaning that the rich don't make their money on the backs of someone else. There is enough in this economy for even you to succeed but not with the attitude you have.

    Then you buy the rhetoric it is going to take time to clean up the mess. Stop buying the rhetoric and pay attention to the results. Obama tells you one thing and then does something else. After spending trillions shouldn't the results be better than they are now and Obama had a very strong Democrat Congress that gave him everything he wanted. The results are there for all to see, 16 million unemployed, 3 trillion added to the debt, and a healthcare bill that taxes everyone thus is a job killer. The Obama motto is "never let a good crisis go to waste" and you buy it.

  7. #47
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    hmmm....growing the economy to 'service ' the debt...why did reagan run a deficit at all??
    Reagan doubled govt. income and corporate tax revenue with his tax cuts, Reagan created 20 million jobs, Reagan doubled GDP, Reagan set a record for Presidential vetoes of Congressional spending but Reagan needed one more thing, the line item veto and never got it. Reagan debt was 1.7 trillion with most of that coming from spending bills attached to the military spending that destroyed the soviet union and created a peace dividend in the 1990's something liberals want to ignore. A growing economy creates more taxpayers and more income and corporate tax revenue and that is what services the debt.

  8. #48
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reagan doubled govt. revenue with his tax cuts, Reagan created 20 million jobs, Reagan doubled GDP, Reagan set a record for Presidential vetoes of Congressional spending but Reagan needed one more thing, the line item veto and never got it. Reagan debt was 1.7 trillion with most of that coming from spending bills attached to the military spending that destroyed the soviet union and created a peace dividend in the 1990's something liberals want to ignore. A growing economy creates more taxpayers and more income and corporate tax revenue and that is what services the debt.
    doesnt matter how much 'revenue' he created, he was part of the problem.....and the whole 'peace dividend', many believe that the soviet union was going to collapse on its own, and that we didnt have to spend what we did on defense. a growing economy that 'creates ' taxpayers is a moot point if you constantly spend more than what you take in....that debt sucks up whatever additional revenue you create in the form of interest payments on that debt. the goal should be to balance the budget, then shrink it an additional 10% to create a 'surplus' that could be used to actually pay down the 'principal' on the debt.

  9. #49
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    doesnt matter how much 'revenue' he created, he was part of the problem.....and the whole 'peace dividend', many believe that the soviet union was going to collapse on its own, and that we didnt have to spend what we did on defense. a growing economy that 'creates ' taxpayers is a moot point if you constantly spend more than what you take in....that debt sucks up whatever additional revenue you create in the form of interest payments on that debt. the goal should be to balance the budget, then shrink it an additional 10% to create a 'surplus' that could be used to actually pay down the 'principal' on the debt.
    What many may have believed doesn't matter as many believed Obama walked on water too. What happened is all that matters just like today. It really is hard dealing with people who cannot understand the benefit of keeping more of what they earn, of having personal responsibility, and why growing the public sector creates debt, not benefits to the taxpayers. For someone who cares about debt wonder why you aren't as angry over the 3 trillion Obama has added or why he signed on to all that Bush spending in 2008. No other President in U.S. history has ever had a trillion dollar deficit, Obama now has two and another projected inext year and as far as the eye can see, yet it is always blame Bush or Reagan, not Clinton who added 1.2 trillion to the debt. At least Reagan and Bush grew the private sector something Obama doesn't understand. Instead of demonizing private business and profits Obama needs to grow that segment because even Obama supporters with a little initiative and drive can become the people they now seem to hate, rich

  10. #50
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    Re: A Turning Point For Democrats?

    The economy didn't collapse by Bush policy alone and what Obama is doing isn't helping grow the private sector.
    Totally false. A job I have applied for and am waiting to hear back from, located in Texas and Georgia is looking for people to help break ground on a few new nuclear and solar energy plants. The plants are partially funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and according to their hiring page they are actively seeking roughly 3,500 people for guaranteed 3 1/2 years of employment with the option of going for an 11 year contract. The lowest paying position at the job pays $20/hr the highest pays $10k a week salary.

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