*boldness added by me*Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics. Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism.
Source:Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know Wikipedia isn't always the most reliable, but the information I cited does come from a source (and you can check it on the webpage).
Mussolini and hitler were not socialists, they were both fascists. The USSR was socialist, and they were at war with Nazi Germany.
Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
"Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run
Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.
What I am taking exception to is the idea that to make such examinations without constantly going back to the Holocaust and showing the Jews that you still have sympathy for them, even though they aren't even part of the discussion, you get branded an anti-Semite. And I think anti-Semite card is becoming like any other race card...people are getting tired of hearing it. And soon, there's not going to be a person alive with any vested interest in catering to it anymore.
-The purpetrator, Germany, is now on their side. Contrast this with, say, the Armenians, whose unwavering attempts to make more known that about two-thirds of them were slaughtered by the Turks, the Turkish lobby continues to do all it can to defy.
-The sheer number of them that died. By a huge margin they suffered the worst genocide of all time, and by an even larger margin they were the largest group that Hitler put to death.
-Hitler was already widely considered a monstrous figure before the Holocaust was even widely known. It's much easier to notice a mass killing when it's done by someone you already hate to begin with.
I didn't list Jewish influence in the media because if that were part of the explanation, people would have been already paying attention to the Holocaust as it was happening, when escaping Jews were trying to tell the world about what was going on, and the world didn't care to listen. It's pretty hard to believe that the massive Jewish influence in the media suddenly happened immediately after WWII, when it became as embedded in the public conscious as it is today. Yeah, there's disproportionate representation of Jews in the media, but we're talking like 10-15% in the media as opposed to like 2-3% in the general population; they're still a tiny minority.
That's exactly the sentiment that people are trying to extinguish by stressing how horrible the Holocaust was. As I already said, when people don't know or don't care about history, it is doomed to repeat itself. Before the Holocaust, genocides went mostly ignored and unnoticed; now, though they still happen, they are recognized for the monstrosity that they are. It's at least a step forwards.I'm just not even moved by the whole topic anymore.
You seem to think it's all about "unrelated agendas", whatever those are... but it's just not. Maybe for some people, but most - even the ones who do try to use it to advance such agendas - just want to make sure everyone recognizes it for what it is... which might help the world move towards an environment where it can never happen again.
Last edited by Dav; 07-27-10 at 06:52 PM.
The Halocaust was part of WW2, yet not the biggest. I agree with you there. But as far as Hitler's legacy, the Halocaust is absolutely numero uno. Right or wrong, wars get started. Leaders want more power and try to take over other countries. It's not pleasant, but it's not uncommon. Rounding up 6 million Jews, Gypies, Homosexuals and mentally retarded people and killing, torturing, experimenting on them and making lampshades out of their skin is not something one tends to find in the modern world. Not on that scale. Then again, Saddam Hussein is gone.
I was actually *just* explaining the Halocaust to my 10 and half year old yesterday. Obviously I had to edit what I said for a child's ears. He knows about slavery. He knows about wars. He knows about disease. This effected him like nothing else I've ever explained to him.
I was raised in the Jewish community and never once heard anyone say it was all about Jews. Never. And the people who taught me the most about the Halocaust still had the numbers tatooed to their arms.
You're right. You can't have a discussion about Hitler without a nod of sympathy to those who were murdered and those who survived to carry the emotional scars. But why wouldn't you?
I know what the Holocaust was. Everyone does. I care that it never happens again. The whole world cared...we went to war and put a stop to it. I just think it's tacky, cras, and kinda dumb to expect contrition from the world for it anymore. It's attention whoring in a way. I just don't care about the holocaust enough anymore to hold Oliver Stone over a barrel about what he said. In fact, as much as I hate to admit it, was rooting for the guy when the slurs about him being an anti-Semite started.
That does remind me of a story though... about my dad, a Cuban refugee, conversing with one of my mom's Jewish relatives. The relative apparently didn't know where he was from, and for some reason felt compelled to talk about what a great guy Fidel Castro was. My dad just sat and listened, and when the guy was done, started talking about all the great things Hitler did for his people. The relative was pretty horrified