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Thread: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    There are some sick ****ers masquerading as journalists in our liberal media these days.
    In truth, our media is far from any one thing other than being sensationalism based....
    Logically, our media can be either right wing (Fox) or left wing ( MSNBC); but this phrase "liberal media" is so old and tired... I think that about 30 years ago I found Limbaugh to be interesting .. a breath of fresh air....
    No more....
    But to wish ill on him or any man is not good.

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    In truth, our media is far from any one thing other than being sensationalism based....
    Logically, our media can be either right wing (Fox) or left wing ( MSNBC); but this phrase "liberal media" is so old and tired... I think that about 30 years ago I found Limbaugh to be interesting .. a breath of fresh air....
    No more....
    But to wish ill on him or any man is not good.
    I will agree the fringes are Fox and MSNBC --- However the rest - CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC ... are not far away from the fring of MSNBC. Let's go to Newspapers --- there's a lot of them, but the Washington Times is perhaps the only right leaning newspaper. The other big ones such as the Chicago Sun Times, NY Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe (subsidiary of NYT), SF Chronicle ... all lean or are fully liberal... perhaps there are a decent amount that straddle the center such as the Dallas Morning News or Miami Herald. Magazines? Newsweek, Time, US News & World Report --- all lean left or are left wing, not to mention Mother Jones, The Nation, New Republic, New Yorker, Harpers, Washington Monthly, The American Prospect, The Weekly Standard, World Press Review ... while American Spectator & National Review remains two of the few larger conservative magazines while there are many smaller unknown ones.

    The ONLY place conservative media reigns is on talk radio - that particular media type is overwhelmingly right leaning. Why this is has to do, at least in part, to left leaning radio not attracting enough advertising revenue to pay for it's operating and labor expenses. Air America has been supported now by the Soro's groups for years as they went bankrupt due to lack of advertising dollars. The one exception - Sirius / XM sattelite radio which only supplements with advertising or retransmits land-based radio transmissions.

    Looking at it holistally - the media is overwhelmingly liberal / left leaning. This makes sense since most of the colleges are liberal left leaning as are most of those colleges professors - and younger people of college age tend to also lean left. It's not a surprise at all. The biggest standouts are Fox and talk radio. Two large islands in the ocean of liberal media.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    whining is whining. Simple as that.
    And I wasn't even going to bring up the whining that started this thread......

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I will agree the fringes are Fox and MSNBC --- However the rest - CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC ... are not far away from the fring of MSNBC. Let's go to Newspapers --- there's a lot of them, but the Washington Times is perhaps the only right leaning newspaper. The other big ones such as the Chicago Sun Times, NY Times, Washington Post, Boston Globe (subsidiary of NYT), SF Chronicle ... all lean or are fully liberal... perhaps there are a decent amount that straddle the center such as the Dallas Morning News or Miami Herald. Magazines? Newsweek, Time, US News & World Report --- all lean left or are left wing, not to mention Mother Jones, The Nation, New Republic, New Yorker, Harpers, Washington Monthly, The American Prospect, The Weekly Standard, World Press Review ... while American Spectator & National Review remains two of the few larger conservative magazines while there are many smaller unknown ones.

    The ONLY place conservative media reigns is on talk radio - that particular media type is overwhelmingly right leaning. Why this is has to do, at least in part, to left leaning radio not attracting enough advertising revenue to pay for it's operating and labor expenses. Air America has been supported now by the Soro's groups for years as they went bankrupt due to lack of advertising dollars. The one exception - Sirius / XM sattelite radio which only supplements with advertising or retransmits land-based radio transmissions.

    Looking at it holistally - the media is overwhelmingly liberal / left leaning. This makes sense since most of the colleges are liberal left leaning as are most of those colleges professors - and younger people of college age tend to also lean left. It's not a surprise at all. The biggest standouts are Fox and talk radio. Two large islands in the ocean of liberal media.

    Aw come on. How do you determine whether all major TV networks are liberal? But forget that.

    You've got a few errors in your post.

    Studies will tell you that there are more conservative newspapers than liberal in the US. You are selecting a small group of papers as your example. What about the The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Chicago Tribune (there's also a Chicago suburban paper called the Daily Herald that's conservative), Los Angeles Times, St Louis Post-Dispatch, Christian Science Monitor? All are considered conservative large papers. Conservative newspapers outnumber liberal newspapers in the US. Not that they are all big newspapers. But in overall number, there are more conservative newspapers.

    Magazines--Newsmax, The Economist, Forbes, The American Conservative, Human Events. (NOTE: US News & World Report and The Weekly Standard are considered to be conservative publications.)--These guys are not small.

    I think the New Yorker is liberal in political reporting, but the large amount of that publication has to do with arts and literature. I mean you can put Rolling Stone in there too, but most of that publication is about music. I'm not sure whether Time and Newsweek are necessarily left---their articles vary depending upon the subject and author. They write on much more than just politics. That can make a publication difficult to truly categorize. I mean, how do you categorize Runner's World? They had an article that was very positive on Bush being a runner. I don't think that makes them conservative.

    Its interesting that you consider yourself conservative but you actually don't seem to be aware of conservative publications such as the newpapers I've mentioned or the magazines. The Trib in Chicago usually has a larger circulation than the Sun-Times and is generally conservative. (But note: the Chicago Sun-Times was actually owned by Rupert Murdoch for awhile so it really wasn't liberal during that period.) The magazines I've mentioned are not really considered to be that small. You are a conservative and you are not aware of those publications? How do you know about the liberal ones since you probably don't read them? (that's not a dig--I'm not going to read most right wing publications either) Could that add to the opinion you have that media is all liberal? What conservative publications do you read and subscribe to?

    Small note-Air America is gone and has been for awhile. Their final lineup was not on Xm so I'm not sure what time period you're talking about with them. XM Left has been syndicated radio folks such as Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller who was never with Air America.

    Hopefully you understand that much print media needs to swing both ways to attract readers and survive. No readers, no ads. No ads, no revenue. Many written publications are in trouble. Let's face it, more people get their national news from the TV and internet than newspapers nowdays. However, newspapers have a more local niche to their readership. Most large cities have at least two newspapers with one being right lean, one left---but that may be changing as economics may force one to go out of business or merge into another. Then they need both right and left readers to survive. But some publications are obviously left that you mention---The Nation and Mother Jones advertise and deliver themselves as liberal or progressive and they are! Many publications use BOTH right and left reporting. I'm not sure you can truly say they "lean" one way or another. Many lean both ways depending upon the story.

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    I came across this article by Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer from the Christian Science Monitor dated July 17, 2010 that sheds some light on the "politics of racism" in this country.

    "The [JournoList] is troubling," says Jim Campbell, a political science professor at the State University of New York (SUNY) in Buffalo. "At one level it could be thought of as just colleagues throwing ideas out to one another, but from another standpoint it almost looks like collusion … where virtual talking points are shared and solidified in a group.”

    To some extent [some] media have been successful in [playing the race card]," he says. "You have people now talking about the tea party and others in terms of this race issue, and that in itself deflects from what the tea party people are really concerned about, which is out-of-control federal spending and excessive intrusion of government. To the extent that the press, even by suggesting that race is an issue, if it gets everybody talking about the tea party in those terms, they have been successful."
    As I see it, nothing else polarizes the political landscape like a racist charge on either side of the political divide. However, IMO some journalist/talk show host take the issue much further than others. Instead of discussing the true issues, some over-hype the issue turning it away from an honest discourse but instead into a highly volatile one.

    At the same time, Campbell says, the race card may have been so overplayed that it no longer has much of an effect on how Americans think or act.

    "I think a lot of people don't take it very seriously anymore," he says.
    Still, I don't think anyone can ignore how the current racial climate has gotten to such a fever pitch of late. Again an article from CSM also by Patrik Jonsson, on July 17, 2010:

    There's plenty of evidence, political scientists say, that a fringe of the tea party movement is over-focused on race, if not to the point of hatred. At the same time, a Justice Department whistle blower says he got word from superiors that the Civil Rights Division will not file suit against African-Americans targeting whites in violation of anti-discrimination laws.

    "The whole discussion is a prime example of how we have, once again, become a very polarized nation, both politically and racially," writes the Root website's Sophia Nelson in the Washington Post.

    What promises to be upheaval in the November elections, in part driven by the amorphous "tea party" movement espousing smaller government versus Obama's "big government" ideas, may in part be driven by the suddenly racialized national atmosphere.
    I tend to take the view from Daniel Starling of the Kansas City Star:

    "Maybe it is a good sign we stop tiptoeing around the historical issues related to race, class, and religion and take them head-on with our political leaders, in our communities … and within ourselves."
    I, for one, would like to have an open, honest dialog on the issue of race in America. Unfortunately, I don't think alot of people even today are ready to hold such a discussion.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-24-10 at 08:46 PM.

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Jeez it was a joke

    Cant you overly sensitive sissy's on the right take a joke,
    So it is a 'joke' when someone on the left says it?
    It is hate speech when someone on the right says it?

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Aw come on. How do you determine whether all major TV networks are liberal? But forget that.
    One way is to watch them over a long period of time... say on and off for 20 years. A second way is to review studies done on the media, say by UCLA.
    Also --- here's the actual study materials not just the write up:

    A Measure of Media Bias



    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    You've got a few errors in your post.
    According to you? Of course I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Studies will tell yopublicationsu...
    Hold on... what studies? Source? Until you provide that --- the rest of this train of thought and according to you, errors --- is YOUR study based on your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    that there are more conservative newspapers than liberal in the US.
    Again... source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    You are selecting a small group of papers as your example. What about the The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Chicago Tribune (there's also a Chicago suburban paper called the Daily Herald that's conservative), Los Angeles Times, St Louis Post-Dispatch, Christian Science Monitor? All are considered conservative large papers.
    I selected large market newspapers primarily in NFL cities which have the largest circulations. According to the UCLA study (which I did source btw)

    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA
    While the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal is conservative, the newspaper's news pages are liberal, even more liberal than The New York Times.
    The Post is owned by Murdoch which is why your saying it's conservative - and that may be. The Tribune - probably because Obama was the first Democrat the paper ever endorsed for President of which one issue doesn't make the entire paper "conservative".

    The LA Times? Again - my source:
    Quote Originally Posted by UCLA
    Of the 20 major media outlets studied, 18 scored left of center, with CBS' "Evening News," The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal.
    No one outside of Missouri or Kansas ever heard of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch --- who has a circulation of about 200,000.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Conservative newspapers outnumber liberal newspapers in the US.
    Source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Not that they are all big newspapers. But in overall number, there are more conservative newspapers.
    Which is why I picked the largest markets with the largest circulations --- the NY Times for example is delivered nationally to not only airports or supermarkets - but to individuals by subscription. Granted the WSJ is probably larger - but again, not conservative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Magazines--Newsmax, The Economist, Forbes, The American Conservative, Human Events. (NOTE: US News & World Report and The Weekly Standard are considered to be conservative publications.)--These guys are not small.
    Newsmax circulation is a paltry 130,000, while the "not small" Weekly Standard is 81,000. They're not only small... they're VERY small.

    My link source identifies US News and World Report as slightly less liberal than Joe Liebermann. What that means is, the ADA score of an average citizen is 50.6, the average ADA score of a Congressional liberal is 84.5. US News and World Report scored at 65.8 - which makes it slightly liberal to the average citizen (higher score is more liberal, lower score is more conservative). I'd be willing to say it's more "centrist" but no where near conservative.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    I think the New Yorker is liberal in political reporting, but the large amount of that publication has to do with arts and literature. I mean you can put Rolling Stone in there too, but most of that publication is about music. I'm not sure whether Time and Newsweek are necessarily left---their articles vary depending upon the subject and author. They write on much more than just politics. That can make a publication difficult to truly categorize. I mean, how do you categorize Runner's World?
    I don't catagorize Runners World or for that matter, Earth Word Digest. According to the study posted --- Time is about the same as US News and World Report - with a score of 65.4, Newsweek is 66.3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Its interesting that you consider yourself conservative but you actually don't seem to be aware of conservative publications such as the newpapers I've mentioned or the magazines.
    That would be interesting coming from a self described liberal. Obviously what a liberal finds to be "conservative" and what a conservative finds conservative are to vastly different things. What you see as a conservative publication, I see more as a centrist publication with a mix of both... funny... the UCLA study sorta confirms my view on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    The Trib in Chicago usually has a larger circulation than the Sun-Times and is generally conservative. (But note: the Chicago Sun-Times was actually owned by Rupert Murdoch for awhile so it really wasn't liberal during that period.) The magazines I've mentioned are not really considered to be that small. You are a conservative and you are not aware of those publications? How do you know about the liberal ones since you probably don't read them? (that's not a dig--I'm not going to read most right wing publications either) Could that add to the opinion you have that media is all liberal? What conservative publications do you read and subscribe to?
    The Tribune does in fact have a larger paid subscriber base than the Sun-Times, and I cannot say one way or the other if it is conservative or not. The magazines however - you were way off - they're very small in the paid subscriber base though with Obama now in office and a full Democratic majority in Congress - I'm sure they saw a bump. I read Newsweek, Politics Magazine, USA Today, my local newspaper (NJ), and I go through news sources from Drudge, CNN Headline News, Google News and Fox News/Business. I also check out CNBC and watch MSNBC Morning Joe, and when I sometimes like watching O'Reilly and when I can stomach it - Hardball on MSNBC, though in small amounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Small note-Air America is gone and has been for awhile. Their final lineup was not on Xm so I'm not sure what time period you're talking about with them. XM Left has been syndicated radio folks such as Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller who was never with Air America.
    My thought was they went off the air in December 2009 which was only about 6 months ago. I guess I was thinking of Sirius Left "young turks" show, which had Malloy and the other guy from Air America. My mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Hopefully you understand that much print media needs to swing both ways to attract readers and survive. No readers, no ads. No ads, no revenue. Many written publications are in trouble. Let's face it, more people get their national news from the TV and internet than newspapers nowdays. However, newspapers have a more local niche to their readership.
    QFT.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    But some publications are obviously left that you mention---The Nation and Mother Jones advertise and deliver themselves as liberal or progressive and they are! Many publications use BOTH right and left reporting. I'm not sure you can truly say they "lean" one way or another. Many lean both ways depending upon the story.
    I think if you review the UCLA media study which was done over a period of time (years), and review the methodology, there are some clear leanings. The WSJ for example is as liberal leaning as the NY Times according to the study - while the Washington Times clearly was leaning conservative.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    It depends where you get it from. I think the problem is that discussion about politics in has to be entertaining for people to pay attention to it. Thus, you do see issues dragged to the lowest denominator. Really understanding some political situations takes time and effort. I think sometimes we want to be all knowing when it comes to politics. I think we would be better off if we stuck to certain areas and got to know it well. But I think we'd rather be entertained. Much of what passes for news does not even try to education.

    How are things in the UK?
    Well on TV i wouldnt say its as bad as America for example sky news is owned by the murdock just like fox news but is alot more news than opinion.However we have some of the worst print media in the western world.Generally speaking the better the paper sells the worse it is.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    One way is to watch them over a long period of time... say on and off for 20 years. A second way is to review studies done on the media, say by UCLA.
    Also --- here's the actual study materials not just the write up:

    A Measure of Media Bias



    According to you? Of course I do.

    Hold on... what studies? Source? Until you provide that --- the rest of this train of thought and according to you, errors --- is YOUR study based on your opinion.

    Again... source?

    I selected large market newspapers primarily in NFL cities which have the largest circulations. According to the UCLA study (which I did source btw)



    The Post is owned by Murdoch which is why your saying it's conservative - and that may be. The Tribune - probably because Obama was the first Democrat the paper ever endorsed for President of which one issue doesn't make the entire paper "conservative".

    The LA Times? Again - my source:


    No one outside of Missouri or Kansas ever heard of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch --- who has a circulation of about 200,000.

    Source?

    Which is why I picked the largest markets with the largest circulations --- the NY Times for example is delivered nationally to not only airports or supermarkets - but to individuals by subscription. Granted the WSJ is probably larger - but again, not conservative.



    Newsmax circulation is a paltry 130,000, while the "not small" Weekly Standard is 81,000. They're not only small... they're VERY small.

    My link source identifies US News and World Report as slightly less liberal than Joe Liebermann. What that means is, the ADA score of an average citizen is 50.6, the average ADA score of a Congressional liberal is 84.5. US News and World Report scored at 65.8 - which makes it slightly liberal to the average citizen (higher score is more liberal, lower score is more conservative). I'd be willing to say it's more "centrist" but no where near conservative.


    I don't catagorize Runners World or for that matter, Earth Word Digest. According to the study posted --- Time is about the same as US News and World Report - with a score of 65.4, Newsweek is 66.3.

    That would be interesting coming from a self described liberal. Obviously what a liberal finds to be "conservative" and what a conservative finds conservative are to vastly different things. What you see as a conservative publication, I see more as a centrist publication with a mix of both... funny... the UCLA study sorta confirms my view on that.



    The Tribune does in fact have a larger paid subscriber base than the Sun-Times, and I cannot say one way or the other if it is conservative or not. The magazines however - you were way off - they're very small in the paid subscriber base though with Obama now in office and a full Democratic majority in Congress - I'm sure they saw a bump. I read Newsweek, Politics Magazine, USA Today, my local newspaper (NJ), and I go through news sources from Drudge, CNN Headline News, Google News and Fox News/Business. I also check out CNBC and watch MSNBC Morning Joe, and when I sometimes like watching O'Reilly and when I can stomach it - Hardball on MSNBC, though in small amounts.

    My thought was they went off the air in December 2009 which was only about 6 months ago. I guess I was thinking of Sirius Left "young turks" show, which had Malloy and the other guy from Air America. My mistake.


    QFT.


    I think if you review the UCLA media study which was done over a period of time (years), and review the methodology, there are some clear leanings. The WSJ for example is as liberal leaning as the NY Times according to the study - while the Washington Times clearly was leaning conservative.
    So your determination on what is liberal or conservative is based primariily on the UCLA study? It was controversial at the time and not totally accepted. But doesn't this study actually pick individual programs and shows? How does that make an entire radio or TV network liberal or conservative? Also some of the newspaper you list are not used in the study. So why are those acceptable?

    Also you site the conservative magazines as having a small circulation. Why is that important? Doesn't it demonstrate that there are conservative publications available? But if do feel that is important, what is the circulation of the liberal magazines you site.

    EDit-Also, what is the source of circulation numbers you are using. What year, what period?

    I've got another problem with your discussion. If you claim there is a media bias, but you don't know the newspapers,( the Trib being bigger than the Sun-Times, but then you claim you don't know the political lean of the Trib) how can you make the claim that the media is biased?
    Last edited by Ziggae_6; 07-25-10 at 12:23 AM.

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    Re: Limbaugh responds to JournoList death wish report

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    So your determination on what is liberal or conservative is based primariily on the UCLA study? It was controversial at the time and not totally accepted. But doesn't this study actually pick individual programs and shows? How does that make an entire radio or TV network liberal or conservative? Also some of the newspaper you list are not used in the study. So why are those acceptable?

    Also you site the conservative magazines as having a small circulation. Why is that important? Doesn't it demonstrate that there are conservative publications available? But if do feel that is important, what is the circulation of the liberal magazines you site.

    EDit-Also, what is the source of circulation numbers you are using. What year, what period?

    I've got another problem with your discussion. If you claim there is a media bias, but you don't know the newspapers,( the Trib being bigger than the Sun-Times, but then you claim you don't know the political lean of the Trib) how can you make the claim that the media is biased?
    Ockham, I'm confused about your criteria. Does circulation determine biases? You make the claim media is liberal and the only area is talk radio. But then you turn around and throw out Conservative publications because of the number of copies they sell? Or that a conservative newspaper is not important because "No one outside of Missouri or Kansas ever heard of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch". Then you claim to not know whether or not the Chicago Tribune is conservative, so that doesn't count.

    Then the only study that carries weight is the UCLA one that was done by a Hoover fellow and published in an economic journal? Their criteria has not been used or duplicated by anyone else which is a normal reaction to scholastic research. Then again, many people thought their criteria (which was complex in using speeches and references to groups as ways of measurement--possibility that they are not controlling for factors such as a group's stated primary goals) was incorrect as it actually listed the ACLU as a conservative group and the Wall Street Journal as being the most liberal newspaper. The WSJ is not a liberal paper, regardless of what this study says and the ACLU is not conservative.

    You throw your criteria around so loosely, its no wonder you come up with your conclusion. Is it only the UCLA study, circulation or a limited selection of publications that make the media seem liberal? I'm sorry. That makes it appear as if you already have made up your mind and you are just choosing evidence that supports your belief. I lived in Chicago for some time so I'm aware of the media and their general lean. So you claim you "don't know" whether the publication (like the NY Post or the Chicago Tribune) is conservative or liberal--how do you know there is a bias, if you don't know.

    I don't think the newspaper media is so much liberal but trying very hard to get people to read their publication. How would you determine a newspaper to be liberal or conservative? Do you base it on speeches given in Congress (like the UCLA study)? Probably not. It normally starts with the editorial page. Almost all newspapers will carry columns both by conservative and liberal writers. Then there are editorials written by the newspaper editorial team. This does not appear to be the criteria in study you site.

    Instead of just citing the UCLA study (which has problems), tell me what YOU think determines whether or not a publication is liberal or conservative? How does the number of people who subscribe to a publication give evidence of media bias? Maybe conservatives don't read?
    Last edited by Ziggae_6; 07-25-10 at 10:15 AM.

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