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Thread: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    The bailout was only a band-aid. The pain was going to come sooner or later.
    And not the first bandiad. Nor will it be the last. Again, until we understand why they keep bailing them out, it won't stop no matter who you elect.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And not the first bandiad. Nor will it be the last. Again, until we understand why they keep bailing them out, it won't stop no matter who you elect.
    We keep bailing them out, because they get big and take too many risks and make too many stupid decisions so we have to bail them out again.
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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    We keep bailing them out, because they get big and take too many risks and make too many stupid decisions so we have to bail them out again.
    That's part of it. But we won't allow the cost to be paid for those mistakes. That's the other part. As long as too many will lose jobs, and those people vote, we will keep bailing them out. At least Obama tried to make some accountability, more than done in the past. But we need to realize all the reasons for this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Harry Reid is just an old moron. Good thing he'll be fired in November. The Democrats lie all the time about the stimulus and bail outs, this just shows they spew empty rhetoric and nothing factual.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Harry Reid is just an old moron. Good thing he'll be fired in November. The Democrats lie all the time about the stimulus and bail outs, this just shows they spew empty rhetoric and nothing factual.
    Maybe. But are you saying republicans never lie? Seriously?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's part of it. But we won't allow the cost to be paid for those mistakes. That's the other part. As long as too many will lose jobs, and those people vote, we will keep bailing them out.
    I completely agree on the politics of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    At least Obama tried to make some accountability, more than done in the past. But we need to realize all the reasons for this.
    The reason is that they're resistant toward necessary change, because they think Uncle Sam will just clean up their mess.
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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Wrong, I did not argue it was important to save the parts suppliers to save the parts suppliers job. It is meaningless if one parts supplier shuts down.

    I was argueing that

    Should GM and Chrysler have shut down in the middle of the economic crisis, the cascading effect would have been drastic. Not only would GM and Chrysler have been shut down, but the parts suppliers as well. The closures of the parts suppliers would have caused Fords production to tank as they would not have been able to get parts for many months untill the problems were worked out. Many Japanese plants would have been shut down as well due to the lack of parts.

    Overall the number of permanent and temporary layoffs just in the auto sector (parts, contractors, truckers, those directly working for GM, Chrysler, those that receive pensions from the above would have seen incomes either go away in full or drop off drastically. In the middle of an economic crisis like the one the US had in late 2008, having the above occur would be catastrophic. If it occured in 2005 or possibly in 2014, it would not be so bad.

    Personally I would have provided a bridge loan (with primary rights during bankruptcty) that would have taken them untill 2011. If GM and Chrysler at that time were not capable of being ongoing concerns shut them down through normal bankruptcy rules, with the government getting first dibs on their assets untill the bridge loan was covered
    Why not just let it fail and let it come back in a manner that is more sustainable?

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Because....

    To be valid, we'd first need to strip out at least 80% of the other competitors, consolidate them into a few big buyers and then structure the supply chain to where each supplier was extremely beholden to individual firms on individual equipment pieces. This is why your current and earlier oil comparison doesn't make any sense. Because that's not how the oil equipment market is run.

    I agree that propping up individual firms is a bad idea, however, the argument that nothing drastic would have changed doesn't make sense when you look at the integration of the supply chain. Without at least GM, there likely wouldn't be enough demand to support the supply chain. That's what got some of the other suppliers in trouble. They specialized too much.
    I have not argued that nothing drastic would have taken place if there was no auto bailout, but that does not make it a good reason to do so. If a business finds itself in a position where it cannot survive, then tough luck for that business.

    Yes, but Lord T and I are talking about an entire industry not just one firm as you are.
    Perhaps that industry needs to rethink how it operates then...

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. But are you saying republicans never lie? Seriously?
    Did I ever say that? Nope, and I'm not saying Republicans never lie. Do Republican lies justify Dem ones? The fact is that Dems are in control right now, and they are lying on a regular basis to the American people in order to push through an agenda.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Why not just let it fail and let it come back in a manner that is more sustainable?
    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I have not argued that nothing drastic would have taken place if there was no auto bailout, but that does not make it a good reason to do so. If a business finds itself in a position where it cannot survive, then tough luck for that business.



    Perhaps that industry needs to rethink how it operates then...
    In more normal economic times I would agree with you.

    But during a steep and deep economic crisis, it would have been an extra shock to a miserable economy, making the contraction deeper and harder.
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