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Thread: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which would be....? To make a point, the two points of comparison must share some basic characteristics. Your argument does not.



    Yes...



    Except that your point is wrong. The oil industry uses much of the same practices and equipment. Furthermore, the number of large oil companies is quite numerous so one going under does not pose a significant threat. Car companies however, design cars specifically and with their suppliers. And because of the consolidation of power from buyers and the integration with specific models, suppliers cannot quickly turn around and find new buyers for model specific parts. Letting GM and Chrysler go down would remove a huge amount of demand as the models being supplied would no longer need supplies. Unlike relatively standard oil equipment, you can't take a part designed specifically for one model and slap it on another. Your analogy fails because you are comparing two very different industries.



    Your comparison sucks. Comparing cyclic problems to structural is not a good foundation for this thread.
    Care to go into some detail?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Care to go into some detail?
    Care to explain how equipment each companies uses cannot be used by another company in the same fashion as parts for car models?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Care to explain how equipment each companies uses cannot be used by another company in the same fashion as parts for car models?
    There's more than one company that makes pipe, BOP's, risers, cement, packers, mud engineers.

    care to go into detail? Do you even know what any of that is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's more than one company that makes pipe, BOP's, risers, cement, packers, mud engineers.

    care to go into detail? Do you even know what any of that is?
    And absolutely none of these parts can be used with any other?

    Yes, I know what those parts are. Furthermore, I'm not aware that many of the oil equipment manufacters are tied heavily to one company buying a few specific models.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And absolutely none of these parts can be used with any other?

    Yes, I know what those parts are. Furthermore, I'm not aware that many of the oil equipment manufacters are tied heavily to one company buying a few specific models.
    Go into more detail, please. Your personal crediblity depends on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Go into more detail, please. Your personal crediblity depends on it.
    To placate you? Try again. I see you never answered my question. And the last sentence is all that is truly relevant.

    Btw, it's blatantly obvious you're trying to hunt for anything you get ding me with. Try to be more subtle next time.

    As for personal credibility, should you really be talking about that?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    To placate you? Try again. I see you never answered my question. And the last sentence is all that is truly relevant.

    Btw, it's blatantly obvious you're trying to hunt for anything you get ding me with. Try to be more subtle next time.

    As for personal credibility, should you really be talking about that?

    Profit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Let's see; profit has what to do with what equipment is used on an oil rig? Care to go into detail? Again, your credibility depends on your answer. Nothin' but luck to ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which would be....? To make a point, the two points of comparison must share some basic characteristics. Your argument does not.

    Yes...

    Except that your point is wrong. The oil industry uses much of the same practices and equipment. Furthermore, the number of large oil companies is quite numerous so one going under does not pose a significant threat. Car companies however, design cars specifically and with their suppliers. And because of the consolidation of power from buyers and the integration with specific models, suppliers cannot quickly turn around and find new buyers for model specific parts. Letting GM and Chrysler go down would remove a huge amount of demand as the models being supplied would no longer need supplies. Unlike relatively standard oil equipment, you can't take a part designed specifically for one model and slap it on another. Your analogy fails because you are comparing two very different industries.
    It does not matter. How about this scenario then, imagine Exxon (for example) has suppliers that specilize in equipment that only Exxon needs. If Exxon makes a new advancement, or no longer needs that product, are we to artificially prop up a supply company because demand has changed? No.

    I am sorry if a company developed a specilaized business model which was 100% reliant on another company maintaining some level of production...If the company they are reliant on goes under, change your business model, or go under as well. That is no reason to save a company. It would be like paying to keep propeller manufacturors open even though the demand has plummetted with the rolling out of the jet engine.


    Your comparison sucks. Comparing cyclic problems to structural is not a good foundation for this thread.
    Sorry you feel that way.

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Let's see; profit has what to do with what equipment is used on an oil rig? Care to go into detail? Again, your credibility depends on your answer. Nothin' but luck to ya.
    Forgetting your profit=liquidity line eh?

    I see you never answered my question.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Harry Reid: Auto Bailout Probably Saved Ford

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    To make a point...



    Yes it is... he argued more or less that we needed to bail out car companies to save the jobs of the suppliers...My point is that every industry will have multiple companies, people etc that rely on it, but that is no reason to keep a company in business that is not profitable.



    I made a comparison to make a point. "Jobs" are not a good reason to maintain an industry that cannot compete.
    Wrong, I did not argue it was important to save the parts suppliers to save the parts suppliers job. It is meaningless if one parts supplier shuts down.

    I was argueing that

    Should GM and Chrysler have shut down in the middle of the economic crisis, the cascading effect would have been drastic. Not only would GM and Chrysler have been shut down, but the parts suppliers as well. The closures of the parts suppliers would have caused Fords production to tank as they would not have been able to get parts for many months untill the problems were worked out. Many Japanese plants would have been shut down as well due to the lack of parts.

    Overall the number of permanent and temporary layoffs just in the auto sector (parts, contractors, truckers, those directly working for GM, Chrysler, those that receive pensions from the above would have seen incomes either go away in full or drop off drastically. In the middle of an economic crisis like the one the US had in late 2008, having the above occur would be catastrophic. If it occured in 2005 or possibly in 2014, it would not be so bad.

    Personally I would have provided a bridge loan (with primary rights during bankruptcty) that would have taken them untill 2011. If GM and Chrysler at that time were not capable of being ongoing concerns shut them down through normal bankruptcy rules, with the government getting first dibs on their assets untill the bridge loan was covered
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