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Large China oil spill threatens sea life, water

American said:
Sounds like what they did with 9-11.
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And all those people that bought into that stuff, especially after all the videos and evidence were debunked, were morons and idiots. They're right right up there with flat earthers and they're knuckles probably drag on the ground when they walk.

Just like the people that really think Obama want's to destroy the country.
 
Middleground said:
It's so hard to get information on China as everything so secretive.
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That seems to be a hallmark of the communist countries I've seen in my lifetime.

Middleground said:
I have always wondered what it's people think of the horrible environmental conditions, mainly in the bigger industrialized cities. On one hand it's their livelihood, on the other it's the air they breathe.
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Much of the population in China is peasant farmers who are trying just to live day to day and feed their families. People who have to work as hard as many of them do just to survive probably don't have much time to worry about the world at large.
 
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Middleground said:
It's so hard to get information on China as everything so secretive. I have always wondered what it's people think of the horrible environmental conditions, mainly in the bigger industrialized cities. On one hand it's their livelihood, on the other it's the air they breathe. You were there for a bit last year, what is your take?
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The environment is pretty bad there. I had numerous respiratory infections that year, but that's kind of the norm there especially if you are sensitive like I am. A lot of people have chronic bronchitis. I remember readingt hat over 80,000 people die per year in Shanghai alone just from the air quality.

The Communists came to power with the collective force of the rural people. In Russia, the Marxist revolution was based upon the power of the industry workers, but Mao modified it and used the power of the agricultural sector instead. He and the party gave them a voice, power, and improved conditions, but it didn't last. Once the economy opened in the 80's, the party started to see what good cash flow looked like and they sold out. The cities are growing more and more each year but the people in the country side are more poor than ever, and unrest is beginning to unfold there. Very little footage makes it out to the outside world, but any city dwellers who have relatives in rural areas can tell you that conditions are deteriorating rapidly. If the Communists aren't careful, the very people they relied on to gain power could rise up and take that power away.

People in China aren't stupid. They know the environment is effed up there. If you ask people publicly, they will praise the Communists, but behind closed doors they will start to open up to you if they feel they can trust you. People there hate their government. They only tolerate them because they are providing a delicate status quo after a century or more of the nation being in ruin. You have to understand China's history of rule. There has always been dynastic houses ruling the country, but their rule has always been contingent upon 1) Keeping out foreign invasion from the north (thus the creation of the Great Wall), and 2) Not stepping on the people too much.

The Communists, for all their talk, are little more than the other imperial houses. The people don't know how to be democratic, they're used to being ruled. Mao was smart; he played up the revolution like it was bringing something new - and it was, in a lot of ways - but all he did was just insert himself and a few leaders as the new emperors, and all of the crony corruption that follows. The people in the country side are being choked by pollution right now because factories are moving in and using the local resources to make cheap exports; and yes, many foreign companies are there too, from the U.S., Europe, etc. People's livelihood is being cut off bit by bit, and IMO this will be the root of the Communist's downfall, especially if it coincides with the collapse of the U.S. economy.

The only reason why the Communists are tolerated is because they provide and are creating infrastructure. Compare them to India and you'll know China is doing very well. People can withstand their nationalistic BS as long as food is on the table each night and the jobs keep flowing, but if their livelihood starts to get disrupted by pollution, that too will end the regime.

My only fear is that if there is another revolution, far, far more people will die this time. In the past when the imperial houses fell, people could at least rely on the wilderness for food to survive until a new economy is established. China is continually destroying all of its land in order to build cities and support 1.4 billion people. Those resources simply won't be there to fall back on as a safety net.

One last thing... I think people underestimate how central China is to our history in the west. We are taught nothing in history growing up about where all of our luxury goods like tea, spices, and many of the world's inventions come from. Until 1600 China was the most advanced civilization in the world, even in Rome's day. The past 300-400 years have been fraught with conflict between our nations and theirs; and now, in the modern world, our industry and economy are tied to their nation. People like to look at the percentage of American treasuries that China owns and say that the risk is not that great, but they are only looking at paper and not considering all the other factors. It is in everyone's interest that China stays functional, even though it is taking the fast track to development which is causing huge domestic problems.
 
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