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Thread: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by modey3 View Post
    Come on no graduate student in my department pulls those kinds of hours; especially for a whopping 25k per year!I would hate to work for your adviser.
    Depends on the subject, physics it's like that. Chemistry a little less, but still similar. In physics it really is expected as a grad student (and post doc...which is why I don't like being a post doc) that you put in 12-14 hours a day 7 days a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by modey3 View Post
    No kidding, but you must have never dealt with an adviser who was bipolar or you would be whistling a different tune. There was a particular case in my department where a bipolar PI drove all his students away either by quitting, firing, or even suicide. I had confirmation that he was bipolar by his former students. Bottom line is that the employer is not always right because there are such things as bad supervisors.
    That's my current boss. People have for sometime considered her to be rather bipolar. Sometimes she's great, sometimes she's pissy. And when she's pissy...watch out. Still it's not something that will destroy anyone. Just need to have some thicker skin is all.
    Last edited by Ikari; 07-21-10 at 05:16 PM.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

    There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.
    I actually have a degree in management, and I can tell you that most (in fact a vast majority) managers are worthless and ignorant about people. They avoid personnel issues because they don't know how to handle them, and they put their efforts in all non-personnel management issues. Sure there are bad workers, but the percentage of bad managers is much higher. Management is the only professional career you don't have to be qualified for. Try getting an engineering job without an engineering degree, or an actual accounting job without a degree. Try becoming a physician without medical school or a license. But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.
    Wish I could thank you twice. Great post!
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I actually have a degree in management, and I can tell you that most (in fact a vast majority) managers are worthless and ignorant about people. They avoid personnel issues because they don't know how to handle them, and they put their efforts in all non-personnel management issues. Sure there are bad workers, but the percentage of bad managers is much higher. Management is the only professional career you don't have to be qualified for. Try getting an engineering job without an engineering degree, or an actual accounting job without a degree. Try becoming a physician without medical school or a license. But we have no problem leaving the most important decisions of any organization to unqualified buffoons. Many who got their position merely because they kissed someone's ass.
    agreed..

    its amazing how much effort goes into avoiding confrontation by management personnel. they would rather a person walk around all day with a booger hanging out, or perhaps a **** stain, than to just go say something.
    im positive that i have saved the company hours of mindless debate by management staff, by just telling the person they stink and should consider getting a different deodorant, or whatever is the topic of controversy.
    it wouldve taken days before enough meetings occurred to warrant passing it off in cowardly fashion to the HR rep.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    I've never had to yell at any of the people I've worked with or for. I think it is fine to have an argument with somebody. It's not okay to behave unprofessionally. I've seen both and have dealt with it accordingly. People have gotten fired, I've had talks about productivity etc. I've never needed to yell at anyone. Being an employer or somebody's superior doesn't make it professional or correct to yell at them at them.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Generally I don't like for government to stick its nose into anything that can be handled without them, but I don't see this as being too terrible.

    Some bosses use their position as an excuse to act like an ass. Some of them enjoy fracking with people under them just because they can. There's entirely too much of this and I wouldn't mind seeing some of it curtailed.

    I've been an office manager with 27 employees. While it was difficult at times, I made it a principle not to yell at people, curse or abuse people, no matter how much of a moron they acted like. I would take an offender aside in private, explain what they were doing that was unacceptible, define how to correct the behavior, and (if it seemed necessary) explain what disciplinary action would be forthcoming if the correction were not made.

    There's no need to yell and rant and rave and act like a adolescent having a tantrum.

    I've had bosses who acted like that and it sucks. Several of them don't know how close they came to getting seriously damaged.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    If they come up with a law against abusive bosses, I hope they have the guts to come up with a law against abusive employees. Yes there are bosses with little to no tact or pesonnel management skills. There are also employees who are just as bad. The employee who plays the system, just barely does the job, or tries to find excuses for not completing their job. At times I think its to much of "it is not my fault" attitude and "let's sue".

    Sometimes an ass chewing is warrented, sometimes its not. While its targeted for the private sector, can you image some drill sargent being sued because he yelled at a private.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Act professionally and there will be no problem

    Act like a 14 year old, and you could get sued
    If an employee bucks up and does his job, he won't have anything to worry about. Personally, I would rather get my ass chewed than get fired. A little yelling never hurt anyone. Anyone that can't take it, might need to grow-up some, then find another job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If an employee bucks up and does his job, he won't have anything to worry about. Personally, I would rather get my ass chewed than get fired. A little yelling never hurt anyone. Anyone that can't take it, might need to grow-up some, then find another job.
    Maybe a job at a library? No yelling allowed there.

    Managers should be allowed to yell at an employee if he has legitimate reason.

    Keep in mind some managers have that power issue going on. They'll be assholes for the sake of being an asshole. Trying to provoke a response.

    I had a bully manager in my past, asking a fellow employee of mine why she wanted fathers day off since her father was dead. That was years ago, and from what i know, he is still working there.

    Yelling is fine. But when attacks go personal it's a huge issue.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If an employee bucks up and does his job, he won't have anything to worry about. Personally, I would rather get my ass chewed than get fired. A little yelling never hurt anyone. Anyone that can't take it, might need to grow-up some, then find another job.
    There is a lot to be said about this thread. I read it from beginning to end (common for me) and I feel I've learned enough of peoples ideas to give me the ability to make a comment that's worth something.

    First, an observation. From what I've seen here, the ones who are saying "suck it up" are the ones who yell at people themselves or are in positions of authority while most of the ones supporting the legislation are the low rungs on the ladder. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?

    I also have a degree in insurance and risk management with a minor in finance. I don't think yelling at anyone is necessary. I worked at an airport for many years in an environment that was noisy so you HAD to yell. But being yelled TO and yelled AT are different. That being said, I never liked raising my voice to anyone or having that done to me. Yelling is what immature kids do out on the playground when they don't get their turn on the monkey bars. We are supposed to be a civilized society, so why not act like it? Your employees will look at you as an example. You are supposed to be a professional. Yelling isn't professional. Yelling is much more a reflection of the yeller than the yellie. (is that a word?) If you act unprofessional, they will to.

    I feel anyone that yells at another human being for any reason other than to convey a message over a long distance or in a noisy environment is basically being an asshole. They should go yell in the mirror to see how stupid they look. What does volume do? What MUST BE SCREAMED that can't be said in a more, oh, mature volume level? I don't know a word in the dictionary that says "this word must be yelled to be conveyed properly." So the choice to yell at someone is on the person themselves, meaning they are being, singlehandedly, a jackass.

    If a boss ever yelled at me I'd laugh in his face because I'd realize that the man *over* me is actually way way under me.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 07-22-10 at 02:32 AM.

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