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New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

jallman said:
When I find out you started crying to HR, that's when you start getting all the crap or impossible tasks that you can't manage and my own documentation of your every failure starts, all with the goal of doing you in swiftly and efficiently. If you can't be man enough to handle it in the department, then you can't work on my team and I'll be damned if I will shuffle you off onto some other department. You got to go. And go now.
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Just the facts man. You would never find out. As far as my ability to "handle it" in the department, that has to be the work load exclusively, not including your temper tantrums. If you would be a loud-mouthed belligerent bosshole, you would be the one filling your office box with a pink slip.
 
Mickey Shane said:
Just the facts man. You would never find out. As far as my ability to "handle it" in the department, that has to be the work load exclusively, not including your temper tantrums. If you would be a loud-mouthed belligerent bosshole, you would be the one filling your office box with a pink slip.
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Yeah ok, pal. If you tried that with me, your ass would be in the unemployment line faster than you could say "write-up". You just haven't run across a boss who maintains good relationships with the rest of the departments in your organization. Like here at my organization, I've shown two to the door already for trying to be divisive and undermining the authority of department heads...one mine and another from a different department. Mine tried to undermine another department head and I wouldn't even tolerate that so she had to go.

See, here's the thing...I maintain myself with restraint at all times when it comes to my employees. I never yell at them, I never act out with them passive aggressively or in ugly ways. If they need time off, I give it freely. If they need extensions to their deadlines, it's done. I don't time their breaks, their lunches, or even check when they come in for the morning...even though with the badge system, I can. They're free to do their jobs and that's all I care about.

But the second I catch wind of any of them making our team look bad, there's hell to pay. A good boss has ways to deal with insubordinate employees and great boss will excise a tumor like that from his department without remorse. If you can't be man enough to bring a grievance to me if you think I've slighted you, you aren't strong enough to work on a great team and you can sit at home on the dole. Call it your disability benefits or whatever you want because your lack of backbone certainly is just that: a disability.
 
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TacticalEvilDan said:
But from what you said earlier, you don't yell, so why would Mickey report you?
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This is true. :shrug:

I just think the whole running bawling to HR thing is the most spineless, pussified way of dealing with conflict ever. I would at least give the courtesy of pointing out the bad behavior to someone before I went tattling because my wittle feewings got huwt.:boohoo:
 
jallman said:
This is true. :shrug:

I just think the whole running bawling to HR thing is the most spineless, pussified way of dealing with conflict ever. I would at least give the courtesy of pointing out the bad behavior to someone before I went tattling because my wittle feewings got huwt.:boohoo:
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In agreement with you 100%. During my favorite stint in management, everybody knew where they stood with me, vice versa, and there was a bare minimum of unpleasantness.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
In agreement with you 100%. During my favorite stint in management, everybody knew where they stood with me, vice versa, and there was a bare minimum of unpleasantness.
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It also builds a stronger team when you have an open door policy like that.
 
jallman said:
Yeah ok, pal. If you tried that with me, your ass would be in the unemployment line faster than you could say "write-up". You just haven't run across a boss who maintains good relationships with the rest of the departments in your organization. Like here at my organization, I've shown two to the door already for trying to be divisive and undermining the authority of department heads...one mine and another from a different department. Mine tried to undermine another department head and I wouldn't even tolerate that so she had to go.

See, here's the thing...I maintain myself with restraint at all times when it comes to my employees. I never yell at them, I never act out with them passive aggressively or in ugly ways. If they need time off, I give it freely. If they need extensions to their deadlines, it's done. I don't time their breaks, their lunches, or even check when they come in for the morning...even though with the badge system, I can. They're free to do their jobs and that's all I care about.

But the second I catch wind of any of them making our team look bad, there's hell to pay. A good boss has ways to deal with insubordinate employees and great boss will excise a tumor like that from his department without remorse. If you can't be man enough to bring a grievance to me if you think I've slighted you, you aren't strong enough to work on a great team and you can sit at home on the dole. Call it your disability benefits or whatever you want because your lack of backbone certainly is just that: a disability.
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The boss that I tattled on for activity that was improper for the work place eventually got in the President of the companies face. He filled his box that afternoon.

You make it sound like what I did was wrong, when what he did was wrong. I couldn't address him face to face with his nasty interpersonal communication lack of skills. Hell, it's likely that his write ups from me reporting to HR never even got read. It just made me feel a little better. The things that I reported him on weren't about things that he did to me, it was what I saw him doing to other people.

You may be an all-star big boss that only hires competent managers. That's great!

Everything I witnessed was not right. I'd do the same thing again, regardless of what you think about it.
 
Mickey Shane said:
Everything I witnessed was not right. I'd do the same thing again, regardless of what you think about it.
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And I'd fire you again. Twice. And then take the rest of the team out to lunch, telling them that your former salary was footing the bill. You know, just to bring everyone together around a common point of humor. :shrug:
 
What a stupid law. If someone's conduct is truly offensive and counter productive, then the boss has the authority to fire him. No need for the government to pass a law that prohibits "bullying" in the workplace. I smell new lawsuits and TV adds prompting people to sue because Stan cut you in line at the water fountain. The boss has the authority to run his business, and he can fire whoever he wants to.
 
jallman said:
And I'd fire you again. Twice. And then take the rest of the team out to lunch, telling them that your former salary was footing the bill. You know, just to bring everyone together around a common point of humor. :shrug:
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Pay attention:
Mickey Shane said:
The boss that I tattled on for activity that was improper for the work place eventually got in the President of the companies face. He filled his box that afternoon.
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You are the box filler. How are you going to fire me after you are let go?
 
digsbe said:
What a stupid law. If someone's conduct is truly offensive and counter productive, then the boss has the authority to fire him. No need for the government to pass a law that prohibits "bullying" in the workplace. I smell new lawsuits and TV adds prompting people to sue because Stan cut you in line at the water fountain. The boss has the authority to run his business, and he can fire whoever he wants to.
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I agree. No need for the law. I've been trying to explain how it really works without the need for a law. Of course, Jallman has fired me five times in a row. I guess it just won't stick.
 
Mickey Shane said:
Pay attention:

You are the box filler. How are you going to fire me after you are let go?
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Pay attention:

I have full confidence that I wouldn't end up fired. And if I had found out you were responsible for doing that to another manager and you worked in my department, you would have followed him out the door.
 
jallman said:
Pay attention:

I have full confidence that I wouldn't end up fired. And if I had found out you were responsible for doing that to another manager and you worked in my department, you would have followed him out the door.
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You wouldn't know. But for fun, let's say HR leaked the info to you. "Watch out what you say and do around that Shane character".

How would you fire me? You'd need a reason. Insubordination to another department's manager? That would sound pretty lame, especially considering that the guy had just received the 'ol heave ho. You're just trying to build yourself up as the axeman that you really aren't in person. Fantasy?
 
Mickey Shane said:
You wouldn't know. But for fun, let's say HR leaked the info to you. "Watch out what you say and do around that Shane character".

How would you fire me? You'd need a reason. Insubordination to another department's manager? That would sound pretty lame, especially considering that the guy had just received the 'ol heave ho. You're just trying to build yourself up as the axeman that you really aren't in person. Fantasy?
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Heh, you keep thinking whatever you want, pal. I hate firing people, but when its time to do it, it's time to do it. And the member of my team that shows the kind of spineless behavior it takes to run to HR over petty squabbles instead of settling their differences like adults has no place on my team. Most organizations I have ever worked at would not tolerate your behavior...you would be "that guy".

And that's fine because "that guy" can be gotten rid of easily. And no, insubordination to management is just that regardless of what departments you are in. Rank and file and all that.

And call my philosophy fantasy if you wish. Just know that I smirk at the fact that you are and probably always will be so low on the totem pole that crying to HR is about the only way you would ever have a lasting effect on your organization. :lol:
 
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OK, I think we can derive:
Jallman is a pro-workplace-bully. A real Prince of a guy.

I'm low on the totem pole like a prole. Jallman, you just keep on grabbing people, hollering at people in front of others, and generally using your position to Lord over those who you feel are beneath you for a reason. The lesser people.

I voted in the income poll. You can't afford me and living in LA is out of the question. Hereby, I decline your measly offer of employment.
 
Ikari said:
You're that much of a wuss? Jesus Christ, sometimes people don't do their job and you have to yell at them a bit. ****ing get over it. If you don't want to get yelled at, don't do a piss poor job; that's all there is to it. But sometimes it happens and just because it happens doesn't mean that people should get their damned underwear in a knot. I work in research facilities, and there's always yelling in some form. Equipment breaking or programs failing things like that. Also, so PIs will yell at their post-docs and grad students if they aren't putting in at least 14 hours per day 7 days a week.

There can be just yelling for the sake of yelling, and maybe people can work on that. But sometimes a worker gets chewed out when they mess up or under perform and that's that. You may call it unprofessional, but it's also unprofessional to not do your job and cost your employer money.
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I guarantee you that your office or workplace is not as efficient as someone else's.

It's more professional to let someone go if they're not working out than it is to yell at them.

Place I worked at about 15 years ago, they brought in a new manager who was "ruthless" - productivity dropped and within a year, a department with 27 employees had 3 left and they were forced to retrain a whole new class. My sister still works for the company. That department never recovered and still has a 60% turnover rate.

Bad management costs companies money. Only piss-poor managers need to yell at people to get productivity. If you pay your employees well and earn their respect, you'll have a good workforce.

There are a lot of people out there who think they're good managers, when really, they just jerks who get off on their power.
 
Mickey Shane said:
OK, I think we can derive:
Jallman is a pro-workplace-bully. A real Prince of a guy.

I'm low on the totem pole like a prole. Jallman, you just keep on grabbing people, hollering at people in front of others, and generally using your position to Lord over those who you feel are beneath you for a reason. The lesser people.

I voted in the income poll. You can't afford me and living in LA is out of the question. Hereby, I decline your measly offer of employment.
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Ummm, if you'd bothered to read, you would notice that I had made it clear I don't yell at my guys. In fact, I made it VERY clear that I am pretty hands off. The only thing I took exception to is the tactic you claim to take when you get all butthurt at work.

But see, you didn't read well and that lack of attention to detail is precisely why you would never get an offer of employment from me, champ.
 
jallman said:
Ummm, if you'd bothered to read, you would notice that I had made it clear I don't yell at my guys. In fact, I made it VERY clear that I am pretty hands off. The only thing I took exception to is the tactic you claim to take when you get all butthurt at work.

But see, you didn't read well and that lack of attention to detail is precisely why you would never get an offer of employment from me, champ.
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I read your posts properly. You are not the workplace bully in this scenario. The guy that I tattled on was, and I mean really was, a workplace bully. I don't get butthurt. I get results. It's your sticking up for a bad guy that I don't quite understand. Do you not believe that the good hard working folks on your team get to have a say on how things go where you work? Should I have waited for this moron in the parking lot? No. My means were correctly used as well defined in the workplace system. I suppose you think that sexual harassment victims in the workplace are just butthurt. Perhaps you are just afraid that someone below you could be a factor in your discharge. Maybe you aren't really the world's best boss.
 
Mickey Shane said:
I read your posts properly. You are not the workplace bully in this scenario. The guy that I tattled on was, and I mean really was, a workplace bully. I don't get butthurt. I get results. It's your sticking up for a bad guy that I don't quite understand. Do you not believe that the good hard working folks on your team get to have a say on how things go where you work? Should I have waited for this moron in the parking lot? No. My means were correctly used as well defined in the workplace system. I suppose you think that sexual harassment victims in the workplace are just butthurt. Perhaps you are just afraid that someone below you could be a factor in your discharge. Maybe you aren't really the world's best boss.
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Or maybe you were a whiney HR crybaby and you don't like having your weaknesses pointed out to you. :shrug:

I expect my guys to come tell me when they see a problem like this and let me handle it for them. After all, it's why they pay me...to look after my department. I'm just saying, in any organization I have ever been in, people would point and laugh at you for what you did. And then, the jokes about your masculinity (or lack of it) would quickly follow. No one likes a little rat snitch who can't handle his interpersonal work relationships without needing a box of tissues to blow his nose and dry his wittle eyes while he sits across from the HR person. :lol:
 
jallman said:
Or maybe you were a whiney HR crybaby and you don't like having your weaknesses pointed out to you. :shrug:

I expect my guys to come tell me when they see a problem like this and let me handle it for them. After all, it's why they pay me...to look after my department. I'm just saying, in any organization I have ever been in, people would point and laugh at you for what you did. And then, the jokes about your masculinity (or lack of it) would quickly follow. No one likes a little rat snitch who can't handle his interpersonal work relationships without needing a box of tissues to blow his nose and dry his wittle eyes while he sits across from the HR person. :lol:
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The personal attacks are really getting to be a bit much. This isn't prison life. I can't get you to see that I wouldn't have needed to go crying to you so that you could hold my widdle hand and single handedly roust the guilty manager from his position. I did what I felt I had to do at the time. Are we not both in agreement that there does not need to be a workplace bullying law on the books? You have taken umbrage at my methods, yet I know that whenever you ask a bosshole to do something, if it isn't kissing the big bosshole's ass, it will never get done. I see something that needs to be done and I do it. I write my own ticket.

I think you are trying to disavow my masculinity for other reasons. Forget it.
 
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Mickey Shane said:
The personal attacks are really getting to be a bit much. This isn't prison life. I can't get you to see that I wouldn't have needed to go crying to you so that you could hold my widdle hand and single handedly roust the guilty manager from his position. I did what I felt I had to do at the time. Are we not both in agreement that there does not need to be a workplace bullying law on the books? You have taken umbrage at my methods, yet I know that whenever you ask a bosshole to do something, if it isn't kissing the big bosshole's ass, it will never get done. I see something that needs to be done and I do it. I write my own ticket.

I think you are trying to disavow my masculinity for other reasons. Forget it.
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I didn' disavow your masculinity. I told you that others would do that to you if they saw what you had done. I have no other reasons besides pointing out issues in this thread. You brought your personal situation into this discussion so don't get your panties in a wad when it gets commented on. :shrug:
 
jallman said:
I didn' disavow your masculinity. I told you that others would do that to you if they saw what you had done. I have no other reasons besides pointing out issues in this thread. You brought your personal situation into this discussion so don't get your panties in a wad when it gets commented on. :shrug:
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This is boring. I think I'll go bully some of my co-workers for a while.
 
digsbe said:
What a stupid law. If someone's conduct is truly offensive and counter productive, then the boss has the authority to fire him. No need for the government to pass a law that prohibits "bullying" in the workplace. I smell new lawsuits and TV adds prompting people to sue because Stan cut you in line at the water fountain. The boss has the authority to run his business, and he can fire whoever he wants to.
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and if the bully just happens to be very productive, even if at the expense of the productivity of others, the boss has the authority to ignore the bullying....seen it done..
 
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