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Thread: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's not the verbal abuse issue that is important in this discussion. It's the attempt of government to take an enforcement stance on the personal behaviors and attitudes of individuals, and I have a problem with that intrusion.
    If you work in a company that has verbally abusive management, you have a choice to find other employment or work for change within the organization. This legislation, in effect, dictates the personal interractions within private companies. More PC BS.
    That's what they used to say about racial discrimination, sexual harrassment, and sexual inequality in the workplace. Glad we're not back there.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's what they used to say about racial discrimination, sexual harrassment, and sexual inequality in the workplace. Glad we're not back there.
    Yeah, it's so much better now that everyone is afraid to speak to one another and afraid to actually be personable for fear of being sued for some assinine sexual harrassment charge or called a "racist" because they made joke.

    I'd like it better if people were able to act without living in constant fear of being sued. And, I'd prefer that if people didn't like the way they were treated at a job then they *gasp* actually took it upon themselves to either change the situation or leave the job. Instead of relying on the courts to make people behave the way THEY want them to so their little feelings don't get hurt.

    If you don't like your job, leave. Your happiness is your own responsibility. If you tolerate bad treatment, that is YOUR fault.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Yes, you do take on the responsibility for your actions, and if you deal with employees poorly and abuse them, they have every right to seek employment elsewhere. A work environment that is abusive will end up with a very limited pool of employees and will likely not be very successful.

    My view is that the individual has an interest in protecting himself from abusive practices by refusal to work for abusive employers. Abuse in the workplace is self-limiting. I have worked in several management positions. I have never had the need to yell at anyone, but I have had to fire several people for incompetence and poor job performance. To me, this legislation is nothing more than more government intrusiveness into personal behaviors and attitudes.
    I think your stance, with its lofty notions of how the individual has so much power of self determination, fails to take into account the power of the dollar and the influence dependence on that paycheck can have for some people. The widowed mother of three will subject herself to the abuses of a foul, insulting, and verbally abusive employer because to walk out might mean her children don't get fed for a week while she seeks public assistance. Even if she must bear the brunt of his or her abuses while finding a way out, she is left bereft of her dignity and self respect, leaving her in no position to instill in her children those qualities that make them strong and productive citizens later. The domino effect down the generations as they grow up, weak and tolerant of abuses because of the example set by society for them when they were young, ripples destructively through society with much more lasting effect than someone stepping in and putting a stop to the douche who thought his signing a paycheck for a woman needing the pay left him with the right to treat her less than human.

    That's but one example. There are countless others I see around me in the cess pool of a city I live in nearly every day. One only has to open their eyes and look on the savagery of our species, the constant clawing and grabbing for power the human race constantly indulges, and you can see that without some entity to set limits, the paycheck is just another shackle in the hands of too many employers. Our society is based on personal liberty and freedom. The Constitution limits what the government can do to impose upon the individual but it does not limit what can be done to an entity like a business in the pursuit of ensuring that the liberty and freedom of employees is not stripped by an employer in the absence of a government to do the same.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yeah, it's so much better now that everyone is afraid to speak to one another and afraid to actually be personable for fear of being sued for some assinine sexual harrassment charge or called a "racist" because they made joke.

    I'd like it better if people were able to act without living in constant fear of being sued. And, I'd prefer that if people didn't like the way they were treated at a job then they *gasp* actually took it upon themselves to either change the situation or leave the job. Instead of relying on the courts to make people behave the way THEY want them to so their little feelings don't get hurt.

    If you don't like your job, leave. Your happiness is your own responsibility. If you tolerate bad treatment, that is YOUR fault.

    You're obviously someone who has benefitted by those changes in the workplace and never had to live with them. A mom with two kids to feed who's being grab-assed by her boss is going to put up with quite a LOT before she hits the streets. A guy who has a job with city government in an area where there are few jobs is going to put up with sexual harrassment by his superior because he can't find a new one that pays anywhere near as well....and that's even with the laws in place.

    It's easy to be righteous when you don't have a dog in the fight. That dog can be YOU or someone you love. Harrassment in the workplace should not be tolerated by management. With this legislation in place, not much of it will be.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're obviously someone who has benefitted by those changes in the workplace and never had to live with them.
    Incorrect.

    A mom with two kids to feed who's being grab-assed by her boss is going to put up with quite a LOT before she hits the streets.
    And that is HER choice.

    A guy who has a job with city government in an area where there are few jobs is going to put up with sexual harrassment by his superior because he can't find a new one that pays anywhere near as well....and that's even with the laws in place.
    And that is HIS choice.

    It's easy to be righteous when you don't have a dog in the fight. That dog can be YOU or someone you love. Harrassment in the workplace should not be tolerated by management. With this legislation in place, not much of it will be.
    No, it should not be tolerated by management. The government need not be involved.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Incorrect.


    And that is HER choice.
    It's not necessarily HER choice. You don't get as many choices when you have hungry mouths to feed, school clothes to buy, medicine to pick up at the pharmacy, etc. There are employers who leverage that need for the paycheck as a means to lord unwarranted authority and diminish the boundaries of professionalism.

    And that is HIS choice.
    In his case, you may be right. But what circumstances lead him to stay in that small town?


    No, it should not be tolerated by management. The government need not be involved.
    Well that's all well and good if management is proactive about taking care of it. However, most of the time, management is the problem.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Incorrect.


    And that is HER choice.


    And that is HIS choice.


    No, it should not be tolerated by management. The government need not be involved.
    The point is, it's NOT their choice. It's an uneven fight.

    Well, the government is involved as they are with racial, sexual and other discriminations in the workplace. The very purpose of the Federal government is to make sure that its citizens rights are protected. It says, "All men are created equal." It doesn't say, "Unless you're the boss, then you can treat me like a piece of crap."
    Last edited by MaggieD; 07-21-10 at 03:22 PM.
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's but one example. There are countless others I see around me in the cess pool of a city I live in nearly every day.
    Perhaps that accounts for the difference in our viewpoints. I don't live in a cesspool of a city. I'm in a part of the country where manners are very common and expected of people. I've never worked in any place where yelling was as issue at all. I would tend to think this is a more common occurance in a predominantly men's field of work, and I expect men to generally interract on a much more raucous level than women do with each other.

    All that aside, I still believe that this is an unnecessary and intrusive government move.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's not necessarily HER choice. You don't get as many choices when you have hungry mouths to feed, school clothes to buy, medicine to pick up at the pharmacy, etc. There are employers who leverage that need for the paycheck as a means to lord unwarranted authority and diminish the boundaries of professionalism.
    Bull****. A person CHOOSES to have children. A person CHOOSES their education or lack thereof. A person CHOOSES where they work. A person CHOOSES where they live. A person CHOOSES whether or not to educate themselves further in order to facilitate finding a different career. Everything IS her choice. If she continues working at a job where she's "abused", she's doing so because it is beneficial to her in some way.


    In his case, you may be right. But what circumstances lead him to stay in that small town?
    It doesn't matter. It's still his choice.

    I know that you would prefer to be in Alaska, but you remain where you are for your partner. While you *could* say you don't have a choice, you DO. You *could* say you're forced to work a crappy job because you're forced to be where you are. But you aren't forced to do jack ****ing ****. We all CHOOSE. We prioritize what's important to us and make decisions appropriately. We all do things that we would rather not do were circumstances different, but that - in no way - means that we have no choice in the matter. We're merely tolerating one aspect because something else has more priority for us.


    Well that's all well and good if management is proactive about taking care of it. However, most of the time, management is the problem.
    And that's when you find another job. It doesn't have to be tomorrow, it could be a year from now, but you find another ****ing job. You pound the pavement, you send out resumes, you educate yourself further, you make contacts and you find another job. The only reason someone stays in a job they hate is because it benefits them in some way to do so. Some people just remain in this compliant state and claim, "they have no choice" when the real fact of the matter is that they have no desire to put forth the effort.

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    Re: New Laws Target Workplace Bullying

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Perhaps that accounts for the difference in our viewpoints. I don't live in a cesspool of a city. I'm in a part of the country where manners are very common and expected of people. I've never worked in any place where yelling was as issue at all. I would tend to think this is a more common occurance in a predominantly men's field of work, and I expect men to generally interract on a much more raucous level than women do with each other.

    All that aside, I still believe that this is an unnecessary and intrusive government move.
    When you mix other cultures with no respect for women, children, boundaries, etc...cultures like Persians who believe, fundamentally, that they can buy people with their dollars, the government needs to step in and set the boundaries for them. When Asian men think it is ok to berate women and youngsters who work for them in front of crowds of people, something should be done. Arabs and South Americans seem to be the worst offenders, believing it is perfectly acceptable to scream to get their point across. These cultural differences should be made to conform to a more American way of doing business and interacting...the politeness you describe...that's the way I was raised and grew up. It is nonexistent in other parts of the country, especially in large cities.

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