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Thread: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    I'm still not seeing the connection between free will and "Beck believes you should be able to keep what you earned" (as you put it)
    "Free will" allows you to freely do as you please accepting the consequences whatever they may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    I didn't say that. I was relating King's belief that his struggle was part of his devotion to Christ through social justice. Beck has roundly denounced social justice in religous thought with only limited exceptions so far as I can tell.
    You don't listen to Beck much, eh? Beck has roundly PROMOTED social justice in religoius thought (and denounced social justice in politics). EQUAL justice, not social justice is the duty of government. Equal justice being everyone is allowed the same opportunities to succeed. Social justice being "to each according to his needs".

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    I can't help but wonder if you really mean to talk about Liberation Theology which is far more specific than social justice.
    Yes, it all goes together.
    Last edited by Josie; 07-22-10 at 11:19 AM.


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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Right...except of course the only time you see any of them in church is...when? Oh yeah...right before elections. Which is hypocritical...and funny (at least to me) but not at all surprising that you only see it one way...
    I have no idea when those two do or do not go to church and I do not care what they do as I am opposed to a lot of their crybaby routines.

    I think you are confusing regular people with the extremists in this case. I am pretty much a mainstream liberal when it comes to most social issues and I view those guys as annoying and troublesome as well.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 07-22-10 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I have no idea when those two do or do not go to church and I do not care what they do as I am opposed to a lot of their crybaby routines.

    I think you are confusing regular people with the extremists in this case. I am pretty much a mainstream liberal when it comes to most social issues and I view those guys as annoying and troublesome as well.
    I guess I WAS speaking specifically the POLITICIANS that use religion for their own political aims. I have to say...In my years...maybe Im just lucky to have been in blessed congregations, but I dont think i have EVER heard political agenda spewed over the pulpit beyond the occasional reminder of upcoming elctions and polling locations...which considering the congregation has always been pretty much a nicety but never necessary.

    Mind you I DO see a lot of catholic priests in California pressing for sanctuary and in opposition to enforcement of immigration laws...certainly a lot of pressing of social agendas in many of them, but usually those are from people with cameras in front of their faces.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I guess I WAS speaking specifically the POLITICIANS that use religion for their own political aims. I have to say...In my years...maybe Im just lucky to have been in blessed congregations, but I dont think i have EVER heard political agenda spewed over the pulpit beyond the occasional reminder of upcoming elctions and polling locations...which considering the congregation has always been pretty much a nicety but never necessary.

    Mind you I DO see a lot of catholic priests in California pressing for sanctuary and in opposition to enforcement of immigration laws...certainly a lot of pressing of social agendas in many of them, but usually those are from people with cameras in front of their faces.
    My pastor endorses tea parties, but I think its mainly because he was part of the generation that fought the godless communists and associates religion with capitalism (vs the godless communists), so I can see where he got his predjudice. However, overall he is a good guy who does a lot for the community, so I am not too upset by it.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My pastor endorses tea parties, but I think its mainly because he was part of the generation that fought the godless communists and associates religion with capitalism (vs the godless communists), so I can see where he got his predjudice. However, overall he is a good guy who does a lot for the community, so I am not too upset by it.
    The head minister at my familys church was a bush supporter. Maybe it was because bush was a member

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    "Free will" allows you to freely do as you please accepting the consequences whatever they may be.
    Yeah well free will allows you to murder, steal, etc... but I wouldn't interpret that as scriptural support for those actions. Please relate support for Beck's assertions around personal property and merit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    You don't listen to Beck much, eh?
    Too much would probably do bad things for my blood pressure. I'm happy to check out something you think would specifically prove your point though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Beck has roundly PROMOTED social justice in religoius thought (and denounced social justice in politics). EQUAL justice, not social justice is the duty of government. Equal justice being everyone is allowed the same opportunities to succeed. Social justice being "to each according to his needs".
    Interesting assertion. Could you please reconcile that with encouraging people to leave church if it supports social justice? As I've pointed out, there are often political ramifications of social justice and they are actually very mainstream ideas.

    It could be he's trying to make a very specific attack and he's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but so far I don't think that's the case.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    my pastor has pointed out that we need to focus on why we choose to support what we do - are you doing it for the right reasons?

    as for Beck, Christianity, and the forced redistribution of wealth:

    the key word lacking from the 'and they held all things in common' is coercion.. those who really want us to legislate what Christianity urges (giving to the poor) need to question what their opinion will be on illegalizing homosexuality, multiple marriages, social security for people with relatives, and so forth. furthermore, they are going to have to explain why they don't let individuals pay whatever tax rate they prefer.

    what does the New Testament say about entitlements?

    2 Thess 3 : We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

    We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right.

    If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.


    1 Tim 5: Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help. But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. Give the people these instructions, too, so that no one may be open to blame. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.


    how about how taking care of the poor should be handled?

    2 Cor 9: Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    Yeah well free will allows you to murder, steal, etc... but I wouldn't interpret that as scriptural support for those actions. Please relate support for Beck's assertions around personal property and merit.
    Yes, you can murder, steal....whatever you want. You also have to deal with the consequences of those actions. As Christians, you aren't supposed to do those things. You're supposed to strive to be a good person who walks in faith. Again, it's a CHOICE to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    Interesting assertion. Could you please reconcile that with encouraging people to leave church if it supports social justice? As I've pointed out, there are often political ramifications of social justice and they are actually very mainstream ideas.
    Again, "social justice" as Jim Wallis and Faithful America are talking about is ONLY political. They are perverting scripture in order to gain power over people politically. So if you're church is perverting the Gospel and saying that Jesus wants the government to take over everything, that's not a church a true Christian should be in. Jesus wasn't about government anything. He was about personal choice and living faithfullly.

    It's awfully interesting how the liberals and progressives who have been screaming about keeping church out of government for decades are now using Jesus Christ in order to create policy.
    Last edited by Josie; 07-22-10 at 08:34 PM.


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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Yes, you can murder, steal....whatever you want. You also have to deal with the consequences of those actions. As Christians, you aren't supposed to do those things. You're supposed to strive to be a good person who walks in faith. Again, it's a CHOICE to do it.
    This is a great little talk about free will but I don't see your connection to Beck's beliefs on property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Again, "social justice" as Jim Wallis and Faithful America are talking about is ONLY political. They are perverting scripture in order to gain power over people politically.
    I think I'd like to see some specific quotes about Jim Wallis proving that is indeed his intent. I don't get the impression so far that his beliefs are as radical as liberation theology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    So if you're church is perverting the Gospel and saying that Jesus wants the government to take over everything, that's not a church a true Christian should be in. Jesus wasn't about government anything. He was about personal choice and living faithfullly.
    I understand what you're saying here but that is more specific than advocating against social justice as anything but charity. Which is what Beck has done so far as I can tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    It's awfully interesting how the liberals and progressives who have been screaming about keeping church out of government for decades are now using Jesus Christ in order to create policy.
    I think you're actually seeing a point of disagreement in the left. The religious left has always had disagreements with the secular humanists even if they share some common ground.

    It's kind of like how libertarians oppose legislating morality but wind up voting for the same guy that's backed by the Christian Coalition.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    If you're interested in Jim Wallis and Faithful America, go to their sites.

    Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace

    Faithful America

    Then read this to learn more about Glenn's views:

    Glenn Beck - Current Events & Politics - Glenn Beck: What Is 'Social Justice'?


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