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Thread: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Beck believes you should be able to keep what you earned (with the exception of reasonable taxes, of course).
    Of course he does. What's the religious justification for this though?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    The term "social justice" in the way Jim Wallis and Faithful America define it, is about politics. They are perverting the Gospel into something it was never meant to be. It's not about politics - it's about personal character and responsibility to others.
    I understand the point about politics in liberation theology, yet if you are indeed working on the behalf of the poor and oppressed there will almost always be political consequences.

    Consider the struggle of US abolitionists. Would it enough to simply bandage the wounds of whipped slaves, or is there a responsibility to end the injustice? Sometimes personal charity is not enough. Once again this doesn't dictate political methods spelled out by Liberation Theology, but there will be political ramifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Christ isn't/wasn't a victim. If you believe the Bible, He could've stopped his crucifixion at any moment. He CHOSE to let it happen because He knew why it was needed.
    All of this is academic outside the context that Beck was using it, which was to refute:

    At the same time, the requirements of justice and mercy, already proclaimed in the Old Testament, are deepened to assume a new significance in the New Testament. Those who suffer or who are persecuted are identified with Christ. [10] The perfection that Jesus demands of His disciples (Matthew 5:18) consists in the obligation to be merciful "as your heavenly Father is merciful".(Luke 6:36)
    Bolding mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I'm not a Catholic, nor do Catholics speak for all Christians (Beck's a Mormon, ya know).
    Of course, but they are about as traditional as it gets. In the context of Beck's discussion of perversion, it suffices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Beck is "scared" of charity and justice? LOL! What?
    Pretty much my reaction too.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    There's an extensive video excerpt of beck at the bottom if you want to learn more.
    In attack on Christian philosophy, Glenn Beck sides with Nazi propaganda | Raw Story
    *yawn*

    Okay, as an amateur biblical scholar, I say this: that article is full of crap. First of all, if a Nazi says something, the laws of nature don't necessarily require that it be false.

    Second, yes, it is a matter of FACT that Jews in Jerusalem were responsible for his death. Sure, the Romans physically, directly killed him, but they wouldn't have done so had the Jews not been on the verge of a riot at the time. It states in the Bible Pontius Pilate defended Jesus three times, and three times the Jewish crowd demanded He be crucified. Had Pilate had his way, things would have gone completely differently; fortunately for mankind, he did not.

    Third, yes, the Apostles and many of his disciples equally distributed their food among himselves. That is NOT necessarily an endorsement of the CPUSA, GUYS. As Mellie has pointed out already, there is a fundamental difference between being charitable of one's own free will and being robbed by the government.

    I mean, dammit, guys.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    Yes although the man keeling over and dying when he didn't give everything implies that giving up your material goods was a very serious and Christian gesture.

    ]


    No. Their lives were taken because they lied about what they had done, and sought to cover themselves with hypocritical "glory" using falsehood.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But NOT many liberals?

    Holy hypocrisy Batman...
    There are people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who do, but I don't see it as being as much in the main stream of the ideology.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    No. Their lives were taken because they lied about what they had done, and sought to cover themselves with hypocritical "glory" using falsehood.
    And why was this lie more serious than any number of other lies they could have told? Why would the other believers give so much to begin with?

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    Of course he does. What's the religious justification for this though?
    Free will is justified in scripture. You may choose to do what's right or you may choose what's wrong. You're SUPPOSED to choose what's right, obviously. How is that equal to government control of charity? You're supposed to make the choice yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    I understand the point about politics in liberation theology, yet if you are indeed working on the behalf of the poor and oppressed there will almost always be political consequences.

    Consider the struggle of US abolitionists. Would it enough to simply bandage the wounds of whipped slaves, or is there a responsibility to end the injustice? Sometimes personal charity is not enough. Once again this doesn't dictate political methods spelled out by Liberation Theology, but there will be political ramifications.
    I agree that the government needs to get involved to protect people who are being mistreated. Hurting someone is a crime and should be dealt with by the courts.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    Pretty much my reaction too.
    But you had that reaction thinking it's true that he's against charity. Do you really not know what charitable contributions he's made? Do you honestly think he doesn't give his money to help others?


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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Free will is justified in scripture. You may choose to do what's right or you may choose what's wrong. You're SUPPOSED to choose what's right, obviously. How is that equal to government control of charity?
    It's not equal to government control, that's not my point. I'm asking for the scriptural justification of Beck's values, not free will. I'm guessing they don't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I agree that the government needs to get involved to protect people who are being mistreated. Hurting someone is a crime and should be dealt with by the courts.
    The real question is when a Christian should get involved and how much obligation they have and in what ways should they to respond to oppression. If you agree that more than charity is needed then it largely becomes a matter of how you define oppression. From what I can tell this is the crux because Beck doesn't appear to believe in social justice outside of charity. Which apparently means actions such as MLK Jr's fall outside of Beck's blessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    But you had that reaction thinking it's true that he's against charity. Do you really not know what charitable contributions he's made? Do you honestly think he doesn't give his money to help others?
    he's against social justice (your quote I was responding to contained "justice" as well as "charity")

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    It's not equal to government control, that's not my point. I'm asking for the scriptural justification of Beck's values, not free will. I'm guessing they don't exist.
    Free will is part of scripture. Jesus doesn't FORCE people to obey. You choose. That's all over scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    The real question is when a Christian should get involved and how much obligation they have and in what ways should they to respond to oppression. If you agree that more than charity is needed then it largely becomes a matter of how you define oppression. From what I can tell this is the crux because Beck doesn't appear to believe in social justice outside of charity. Which apparently means actions such as MLK Jr's fall outside of Beck's blessing.
    From where are you getting he doesn't believe in civil rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblgorilla View Post
    he's against social justice (your quote I was responding to contained "justice" as well as "charity")
    You do understand that "social justice" as described by Jim Wallis and others has everything to do with politics, right?


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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Free will is part of scripture. Jesus doesn't FORCE people to obey. You choose. That's all over scripture.
    I'm still not seeing the connection between free will and "Beck believes you should be able to keep what you earned" (as you put it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    From where are you getting he doesn't believe in civil rights?
    I didn't say that. I was relating King's belief that his struggle was part of his devotion to Christ through social justice. Beck has roundly denounced social justice in religous thought with only limited exceptions so far as I can tell.

    On his radio and television shows, Beck suggested any church promoting "social justice" or "economic justice" merely was using code words for Nazism and communism.


    "I beg you look for the words social justice or economic justice on your church Web site," he said. "If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. ... Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If they're going to Jeremiah Wright's church, yes!


    "If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish," he said. "Go alert your bishop and tell them, 'Excuse me, are you down with this whole social justice thing?' If it's my church, I'm alerting the church authorities: 'Excuse me, what's this social justice thing?' And if they say, 'Yeah, we're all in on this social justice thing,' I am in the wrong place."

    Later, Beck held up a picture of a swastika and one of a hammer and sickle, declaring again that "social justice" has the same philosophy as the Nazis and communists and that the phrase is a code word for both.

    Stu Burguiere, executive producer at "The Glenn Beck Radio Program," sought to clarify Beck's comments today.

    "Like most Americans, Glenn strongly supports and believes in 'social justice' when it is defined as 'good Christian charity,'" he said. "Glenn strongly opposes when Rev. Wright and other leaders use 'social justice' as a euphemism for their real intention -- redistribution of wealth."
    ABC article


    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    You do understand that "social justice" as described by Jim Wallis and others has everything to do with politics, right?
    I'm really not sure how else to understand social justice unless it intermingles as necessary with politics to help the oppressed. Glenn Beck's idea of social justice as simple charity seems hopelessly weak to describe the notion that many Christian faiths adhere to.

    I can't help but wonder if you really mean to talk about Liberation Theology which is far more specific than social justice.

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    Re: Exclusive: Religious group calls out Glenn Beck’s ‘warped gospel’

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    There are people such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who do, but I don't see it as being as much in the main stream of the ideology.
    Right...except of course the only time you see any of them in church is...when? Oh yeah...right before elections. Which is hypocritical...and funny (at least to me) but not at all surprising that you only see it one way...

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