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Thread: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

  1. #31
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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you seem to have forgotten that you moved away from merely asking questions to posting inane opinion.
    Which part is inane --- that closing dealerships added to the joblessness?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here, let me show you your own words:
    Yes let's look at my own words...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham
    He should have let the entire company close, as would have been done with the banks. Definately a harder pill to swallow and yes, it would hurt more in the short term. Long term it would have righted the system and let company's and banks know they are not too big to fail. Instead, we have an extended recession - with a possibility of a double dip - company's and banks owned by the Federal Government - bailed out with billions in taxpayer money. What I'm questioning in this case is what the effects are of closing these dealerships pre-emptively. Was this for Chrysler and GM to keep more for the executives when they knew they'd be going through Chapter 11 - or - was the motive really protecting the company?
    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    notice how you argue that (1) the government should have allowed the automakers (and the banks) to fail, putting all employees out of work ...
    I'm not arguing it, I'm stating that's my hypothetical opinion of what Obama should have done - in response to your asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    while simultaneously complaining that unprofitable dealerships should have been propped up with government dollars to preserve dealership jobs
    i can only conclude that you haven't the foggiest notion about what you are complaining about
    Perhaps it's because I'm not complaining. You seem to have a problem discerning the difference between asking a question and making a complaint. Here --- let me help give you an example.


    Example 1: "Bill, did you take out the garbage?"

    This is an example of a QUESTION. A query is being made asking if Bill completed a task.

    Example 2: "Bill just cannot handle taking out the garbage and no matter how many times I ask him to take out the garbage he never seems to do it and I end up doing it and I'm tired of taking out the garbage."

    This is an example of a complaint.


    I hope you can reference this post for future use when you get confused.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #32
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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Which part is inane --- that closing dealerships added to the joblessness?
    no. the inanity is found within the disconnect between the two positions you have taken:
    1. that the government should NOT have aided the automakers
    2. the government should have provided additional money to the automakers to preserve unprofitable jobs at the now closed car dealerships



    Yes let's look at my own words...
    stay tuned, we are about to



    I'm not arguing it, I'm stating that's my hypothetical opinion of what Obama should have done - in response to your asking.
    again, you illustrate you haven't a clue about what you are posting. you are not "arguing" an opinion you are "stating" one, as if there is a distinction to be made which should allow your position to be viewed any differently

    Perhaps it's because I'm not complaining. You seem to have a problem discerning the difference between asking a question and making a complaint. Here --- let me help give you an example.


    Example 1: "Bill, did you take out the garbage?"

    This is an example of a QUESTION. A query is being made asking if Bill completed a task.

    Example 2: "Bill just cannot handle taking out the garbage and no matter how many times I ask him to take out the garbage he never seems to do it and I end up doing it and I'm tired of taking out the garbage."

    This is an example of a complaint.


    I hope you can reference this post for future use when you get confused.
    here, let's use your own words to illustrate your stated position:
    Again, I go back to closing these dealerships add to the joblessness --- but since they were getting bailed out, why not keep most of these dealerships open and only close the one's that were in real trouble and as was identified - would have closed anyway?
    appears you have staked out the position that the dealership closings contributed to the unemployment rolls which they did. but you then go on to advocate for the government to bailout dealership jobs, despite the recognition that those jobs were unprofitable. you want the government to subsidize these underperforming dealerships. maybe your brand of conservatism is one which endorses the government paying for private sector jobs that are not profitable. as a fiscal conservative, that is not how i view conservatism; which causes me to conclude your posts on this matter make no sense. that is what i actually find confusing about your positions
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  3. #33
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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no. the inanity is found within the disconnect between the two positions you have taken:
    1. that the government should NOT have aided the automakers
    2. the government should have provided additional money to the automakers to preserve unprofitable jobs at the now closed car dealerships
    1. This is the "hypothetical" position - you asked me to answer.
    2. Thisis the "real life" questions I've been asking about.

    Still having trouble huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    appears you have staked out the position that the dealership closings contributed to the unemployment rolls which they did.
    Well that's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but you then go on to advocate for the government to bailout dealership jobs, despite the recognition that those jobs were unprofitable.
    Really? When did I recognize the unprofitability?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you want the government to subsidize these underperforming dealerships.
    I don't know they were underperforming - you didn't provide a list so I could identify which one's I'd close or keep open. Sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    maybe your brand of conservatism is one which endorses the government paying for private sector jobs that are not profitable.
    Maybe you don't know the difference between questions and opinions. Or for that matter, a complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    as a fiscal conservative, that is not how i view conservatism;
    I find your admission of being a conservative anything - laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    which causes me to conclude your posts on this matter make no sense. that is what i actually find confusing about your positions
    You make no sense. Hate to tell ya, you're the one confused.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Closing the dealerships in bankrupcty saved the company money. During bankrupcty a company can break contract without financial penalty. Had GM waited untill it exited bankruptcy it would cost GM a large amount of money to close them. As such it made financial sense to close them at that time as to ensure GM becomes a profitable enterprise in the future. At less cost to the government
    It may have saved money when union contracts were renegotiated

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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It may have saved money when union contracts were renegotiated
    And it did, wages and benifits were cut, the number of employee's was reduced as well
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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    The whole move was to prevent a bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler. It worked.
    Actually, they did go bankrupt (chapter XI), but they had a pre-packaged bankruptcy, which minimized damage to the economy as a whole and the auto industry and rust belt states in particular. The idea of cutting overhead is corporate restructuring 101.... carrying underperforming dealerships is going to be superfluous overhead. I am sure their are disputes about how they determined what dealerships (including politics internal to Crysler and GM), thus they made mistakes, but the overall result is a huge plus. GM appears to once again be a vibrant auto manufactuerer. I still don't understand what those who did not favor the auto industry bailout would have wanted. Clearly the result of the alternative would have been a far worst outcome than that which was achieved.

    You can find much to critize about the Obama administration, but overall this is the wrong thing as it appears to be a huge success.

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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    And it did, wages and benifits were cut, the number of employee's was reduced as well
    Not to the point courts would have. Obama saved the unions and in the process cost many jobs. Obama cared about the union management not the workers.

    If GM was already closing dealers why did Obama rush the process? Maybe Obama wanted the recoginition thhat he did this even though the company was going to do it any way. more deception by Obama.

    The courts and legal system were not allowed to do their job.

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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Not to the point courts would have. Obama saved the unions and in the process cost many jobs. Obama cared about the union management not the workers.

    If GM was already closing dealers why did Obama rush the process? Maybe Obama wanted the recoginition thhat he did this even though the company was going to do it any way. more deception by Obama.

    The courts and legal system were not allowed to do their job.

    Did you not read a post earlier?

    During bankruptcy GM can close dealerships without having to payout the dealers, saving GM lots of money.

    Also remember. GM needs auto plants and workers to make the cars that the dealers sell. GM closed dealers because it has/had to many. Just like it had to many autoworkers, both were rationalized. Both area's had job loss's
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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Did you not read a post earlier?

    During bankruptcy GM can close dealerships without having to payout the dealers, saving GM lots of money.

    Also remember. GM needs auto plants and workers to make the cars that the dealers sell. GM closed dealers because it has/had to many. Just like it had to many autoworkers, both were rationalized. Both area's had job loss's
    Correct did Obama cause more job loss than was needed? Why is it Obama did not let the courts work but came up with a preplanned bankruptcy. Obama was only concerned about the unions that helped him get elected

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    Re: TARP Audit Questions Rush to Close Auto Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Correct did Obama cause more job loss than was needed? Why is it Obama did not let the courts work but came up with a preplanned bankruptcy. Obama was only concerned about the unions that helped him get elected
    If the dealerships were not productive then the job loss's were needed were they not. Unless you like the government to subsidize car dealerships
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