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Thread: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    A significant portion of that deficit is temporary stimulus spending, which most economists agree significantly decreased the severity of the recession. Also, tax revenues drop during a recession.

    Lies, damned lies, and statistics
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    A significant portion of that deficit is temporary stimulus spending, which most economists agree significantly decreased the severity of the recession. Also, tax revenues drop during a recession.

    Lies, damned lies, and statistics
    But, but, the stealfromus package was supposed to enable us to recover from the recession. Now, the party's talking point is that it was only to soften the blow of the recession?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Either way you slice it, the recession wasn't this Administration's fault and I'm sure most Americans realize this. Now, it could be argued (unsuccessfully, IMO) that some spending decisions made by the President and approved by a majority-Democratic Congress has slowed the recovery process, but it's way too early to tell just how much of an impact government spending has had on the recession. Besides, this isn't just a U.S. recession; it's a global recession. And the U.S. isn't the only country whose government has authorized bailouts or tried to use stimulus plans to pull their economies out of a slump.

    Again, the more people educate themselves on what's taking place not only in the U.S. but around the world where the economy is concerned, the more they'll realize that it's the Democrats not the Republicans who are doing more to pull this country up by it's boot straps.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-17-10 at 09:27 PM.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Both the Republicans and the Democrats of the House and Senate are responsible for getting us into this mess. Bush and Clinton and Obama have nothing to do with it.

    he repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between Wall Street investment banks and depository banks and has been blamed for exacerbating the damage caused by the collapse of the subprime mortgage market that led to the Financial crisis of 2007–2010.

    ...


    The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, which was in 1999 the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities. Elizabeth Warren, author and one of the five outside experts who constitute the Congressional Oversight Panel of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, has said that the repeal of this act contributed to the Global financial crisis of 2008–2009.

    The year before the repeal, sub-prime loans were just five percent of all mortgage lending. By the time the credit crisis peaked in 2008, they were approaching 30 percent. This correlation is not necessarily an indication of causation however, as there are several other significant events that have impacted the sub-prime market during that time.
    The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, (Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999-2001) signed into law by President Bill Clinton which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, opening up the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies.

    Sen. Phil Gramm (R—TX), Rep. Jim Leach (R—IA-2), and Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R—VA-7), the co-sponsors of the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.
    All Republicans sponsored this bill. Clinton signed it into law.

    Mark-to-market accounting rules are also to blame, as required by the SEC:

    Former FDIC Chair William Isaac placed much of the blame for the subprime mortgage crisis on the Securities and Exchange Commission and its fair-value accounting rules, especially the requirement for banks to mark their assets to market, particularly mortgage-backed securities. Whether or not this is true has been the subject of ongoing debate.

    The debate arises because this accounting rule requires companies to adjust the value of marketable securities (such as the mortgage-backed securities (MBS) at the center of the crisis) to their market value. The intent of the standard is to help investors understand the value of these assets at a point in time, rather than just their historical purchase price. Because the market for these assets is distressed, it is difficult to sell many MBS at other than prices which may (or may not) be reflective of market stresses, which may be below the value that the mortgage cash flow related to the MBS would merit. As initially interpreted by companies and their auditors, the typically lower sale value was used as the market value rather than the cash flow value. Many large financial institutions recognized significant losses during 2007 and 2008 as a result of marking-down MBS asset prices to market value.

    For some institutions, this also triggered a margin call, where lenders that had provided the funds using the MBS as collateral had contractual rights to get their money back. This resulted in further forced sales of MBS and emergency efforts to obtain cash (liquidity) to pay off the margin call. Markdowns may also reduce the value of bank regulatory capital, requiring additional capital raising and creating uncertainty regarding the health of the bank.

    It is the combination of the extensive use of financial leverage (i.e., borrowing to invest, leaving limited room in the event of a downturn), margin calls and large reported losses that may have exacerbated the crisis.
    It is not clear to me who caused the SEC to implement a requirement of banks of fair-value accounting.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, but, the stealfromus package was supposed to enable us to recover from the recession. Now, the party's talking point is that it was only to soften the blow of the recession?
    I'm not sure anybody seriously thought it would instantly turn things around.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I'm not sure anybody seriously thought it would instantly turn things around.
    I'm not sure anybody seriously thought it would turn things around at all.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm sure many Americans have already thought of that. However, the fact remains that the Republicans held Congress for 6 years before the Democrats. So, when you really think about it, Republicans have done more to set this nation afoul in 6 years than the Democrats have done in under two years.

    Yes, the Democrat have incurred the largest debt, but it's the result of trying to fix the mess Republican's put the nation in.
    Here are some reoccurring items from the Bush administration:
    • The huge Bush Tax cuts that mostly went to the wealthiest Americans.
    • The wars in Iraq an Afghanistan
    • The Medicare Part "D"

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't think so.

    I think people are smarter than the media and politicians give them credit for. For example, the polls are a snapshot of what a select group of people think, feel, believe at any given moment on any given issue, but when given the facts most people vote based not only on their gut but also based on what they know. And one thing is certain: The Obama Administration didn't cause the mess this country is in right now.

    People may not like all the spending, but if they really understood who we got into this mess and especially if they go back and review the history books on those points in time when this nation ran into economic problems, they'll quickly realize it was the fault of deregulation or the lack there of and all the President is attempting to do is fix the problems. But just as w/the Depression and the Recession that occured before it (yes, there was one around 1898 that threatened to be worse than the Depression of 1929-1939), the government stepped up and did what it had to do to save the nation. Many people many not like the bailouts, but it's not the first time it's happened...and it likely won't be the last. But my hope is the next one will be many, many years after I, my children and grandchildren are long gone.
    People remember how much they disliked the Republicans that ran the show last time. True. But there are a lot of new faces in the Republican Party, and the Democrats, who thought they were going to be in power another fifty years, have completely flopped. They've failed on every level and they've been so bad, that I think the unimaginable will happen. I think the Republicans will close the gap in the Senate and possibly win back the House. I think there is a chance that Hillary Clinton will challenge President Obama in a Primary as well.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    I know who I'm blaming -- Barney Frank, Bill Clinton and our Democratic Congress.

    Barney Frank, Chairman of the House Finance Committee. In 2006 (before he was Chairman), he also was one of three representatives who voted against the Fallen Heroes Act that restricted protests at soldiers' funerals. What a jerk. One other dissent was another Democrat, Wu, and Republican Ron Paul. (I didn't know about Ron Paul until I just checked it out.) So jerks all three. (That whole issue is just an aside.)

    Anhow, as Chair of the House Finance Committee, where is he NOW? After this debacle? Is he investigating S&P or Moody's? For rating junk AAA? Is anyone going to jail? If those mortgages securities had been properly rated, Wall Street wouldn’t have been clamoring for more. Is he regulating FNMA? Are we investigating the FHA? Do we still have Nehemiah Programs out there? And the American Dream Program? These are programs that allow the SELLER to give the BUYER his downpayment. That means buyers have absolutely no skin -- ZERO -- in the game. (I just looked it up, and BY GOLLY!!! GWB signed legislation that outlawed them. Go Bush!) Unfortunately in 2008, when the House got that bill on his desk, it was already too late. Where's Congress? Is it too much to ask that a full investigation be done and somebody goes to jail? Because somebody(ies) should.

    Bill Clinton because he began the housing run-up by insisting lenders find ways to loan money to low-income borrowers with implied threats, I'm sure, because that's how it's done. For "low-income borrowers," read "people who can't pay back the money," by the way. And also Bill Clinton because these Nehemiah-type programs began during the Clinton Administration...when the FHA decided it was perfectly fine that buyers bought homes with zero down, soaked the sellers, and, as an unforeseen consequence, padded appraisals by 4% to 7%. I'd love to know who was behind these "religious and community-based" organizations that funded those downpayment assistance plans. Does community-based organization sound familiar?

    I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat in 2010 if the only other choice were, I don’t know, Howdy Doody. My plan is to vote against every incumbent on the Republican ballot. If enough people did that, Congress would get the message that we’re sick and tired of politics as usual. We want real representation – not career politicians who start working on their war chests the day after they’re elected.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 07-18-10 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Just normal editing
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    Re: Obama: Voters to decide who caused 'this mess'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Either way you slice it, the recession wasn't this Administration's fault and I'm sure most Americans realize this. Now, it could be argued (unsuccessfully, IMO) that some spending decisions made by the President and approved by a majority-Democratic Congress has slowed the recovery process, but it's way too early to tell just how much of an impact government spending has had on the recession. Besides, this isn't just a U.S. recession; it's a global recession. And the U.S. isn't the only country whose government has authorized bailouts or tried to use stimulus plans to pull their economies out of a slump.

    Again, the more people educate themselves on what's taking place not only in the U.S. but around the world where the economy is concerned, the more they'll realize that it's the Democrats not the Republicans who are doing more to pull this country up by it's boot straps.
    I think the opposite is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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