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First rig sails away over drilling ban

Your Star said:
There are no jobs, I know. But you know who can create jobs, the government. Have a government job program doing things that would benefit the country.
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:rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The government can't create jobs.

Please, join us here in the real world for a moment. Obama spent a trillion bucks to create, how many jobs??? Where did that money come from, exactly?
 
apdst said:
:rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The government can't create jobs.

Please, join us here in the real world for a moment. Obama spent a trillion bucks to create, how many jobs??? Where did that money come from, exactly?
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Dah dum daaaa

From peoples TAXES that they paid by WORKING and BUYING stuff.

Dah dum daaaa
 
Aunt Spiker said:
And what will people do?
What jobs will they create?

I've yet to hear a real solution to this problem . . . there obviously isn't one. I'm sure that if Obama could snap his fingers and create a lot of jobs for people to work he would have done it already.

And besides - I thought the states received millions in bailouts for "shovel ready jobs" - I guess that didn't come to fruition, but the money was sure gobbled up.

Nomnomnom
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We need GDP to rise, and with consumer, and investment spending down, and our imports exceeding our exports the only way we can raise GDP is through government spending. The gov. can create jobs with a new deal like job program. Doing things like improving infrastructure, maybe mass producing solar panels, really anything will do. But we might as well improve, and advance our society with such programs. Yeah you could drill, but why pour money into a tech, and resource that we need to get away from. With these new jobs, it will give more people a steady income, in turn they will spend, which will increase consumer spending, which will help investment spending, and if we produce enough products with this program, we can even out the ratio of imports/exports. With these factors increasing, and the improved market more jobs will open up. Thats when we can cut down this job program, and let those workers find jobs in an improved market. Then we can concentrate on reducing this massive deficit we have. We need to focus on improving the economy first, and we might as well tackle one of the biggest issues facing the future generations of the not only this country, but the world early. So we can save not only us, but our kids, and grandkids a very big hassle. We are at a juncture on this issue where we could do nothing, and make the future generations race against time to solve it. Or we can solve it now, and move on from this dangerous, and nonrenewable source of energy.
 
Your Star said:
We need GDP to rise, and with consumer, and investment spending down, and our imports exceeding our exports the only way we can raise GDP is through government spending. The gov. can create jobs with a new deal like job program. Doing things like improving infrastructure, maybe mass producing solar panels, really anything will do. But we might as well improve, and advance our society with such programs. Yeah you could drill, but why pour money into a tech, and resource that we need to get away from. With these new jobs, it will give more people a steady income, in turn they will spend, which will increase consumer spending, which will help investment spending, and if we produce enough products with this program, we can even out the ratio of imports/exports. With these factors increasing, and the improved market more jobs will open up. Thats when we can cut down this job program, and let those workers find jobs in an improved market. Then we can concentrate on reducing this massive deficit we have. We need to focus on improving the economy first, and we might as well tackle one of the biggest issues facing the future generations of the not only this country, but the world early. So we can save not only us, but our kids, and grandkids a very big hassle. We are at a juncture on this issue where we could do nothing, and make the future generations race against time to solve it. Or we can solve it now, and move on from this dangerous, and nonrenewable source of energy.
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Much better.

Sadly, to start any sort of new deal type shock therapy to the system it takes money - and honey - we aint got that. We're already wallowing in a skyrocketing deficit.

I can't find the article, now *so annoying when that happens* but earlier I read an article about outsourced jobs being brought back to the US. . . the cause being that foreign workers are protesting more and demanding more pay increases and so forth.

Things in the private sector might switcharoo - and bring things back to US soil where they should always have been to begin with. . . .which could solve such problems.

but there's no short-term quick solution to a problem that's been brewing and building for so long, really. We're a day late and a few trillion short.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
With all due respect sir the oil industry provides about 50,000 jobs in my state alone. So keep your canadian comments to yourself. It's not your state or country or even problem. We'll deal with it, thanks.
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With all due respect, I could be afforded more respect than that. Last time I checked this forum isn't for Americans only. If you don't like that, maybe you should shove off. :2wave:
 
Orion said:
With all due respect, I could be afforded more respect than that. Last time I checked this forum isn't for Americans only. If you don't like that, maybe you should shove off. :2wave:
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True that, but considering the environmental degregation in Canada from exploitation of the oil sands in places like Alberta and the scale of Canada's own oil industry, perhaps you should take care of your problems at home before worring about problems in the US.
 
ludahai said:
True that, but considering the environmental degregation in Canada from exploitation of the oil sands in places like Alberta and the scale of Canada's own oil industry, perhaps you should take care of your problems at home before worring about problems in the US.
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My home isn't in Alberta, and the OP is about something that happened in the U.S.

This is the second time today someone irrelevantly called out my nationality. Why don't you back off.
 
So now, all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that the oil apologists give a fat rats ass about "saving American jobs?"

Really?

:giggle:

Good one!
 
Orion and others may not be from the U.S., but I am. And, as a Floridian, I'd like to say to the Louisiana oil workers, in the nicest possible way: **** YOUR JOBS.

Maybe this is a sign from the universe that it's time to find a different line of work.
 
Orion said:
My home isn't in Alberta, and the OP is about something that happened in the U.S.

This is the second time today someone irrelevantly called out my nationality. Why don't you back off.
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You don't really invite polite or level debate with comments like 'the more the merrier' though, you know - especially when it's in support of people actually losing their jobs. Whether you like the industry or not aside - the root of the matter is that *right now* it's not going to be a good thing at all.

Just sayin'

In fact, most of your comments in regard to the US are critical of the US. . . . which is never taken with a lump of sugar. . . yet it's rare to see you criticize Canada of your country's own fouls in the same areas of debate.
 
Here it is, from a gulf perspective:

THE MORE THE MERRIER.

Gulf oil spill puts oyster shuckers, traditions on ice | NOLA.com

The local oyster supply has been unsteady since late April, when the Gulf of Mexico oil spill triggered the precautionary closure of oyster harvesting areas and the opening of freshwater diversions, which can degrade the quality of oysters and, in some instances, kill them.

Fishers have had unreliable access to oyster beds ever since, prompting many of them to seek employment with BP cleaning up the oil spill. In recent weeks, the unpredictable opening and closing of commercial fishing areas has combined with the reduced fleet of oyster boats to nearly suffocate the supply of Gulf oysters. Some restaurants known for raw Gulf oysters, such as Drago's and Dockside Seafood and Oyster Bar, have quit serving them altogether.

"We're down to nothing," said Lisa Halili, vice president of Prestige Oysters Inc, a Texas oyster processor and distributor that is one of the largest oyster lease holders in Louisiana and Texas. "Ninety percent of our beds are closed."


Thomas 'Uptown T' Stewart has been shucking oysters for more than 20 years at Pascal's Manale Restaurant in Uptown New Orleans.
Lenny Minutillo, New Orleans sales manager of Louisiana Seafood Exchange, said most of the restaurants that he services have stopped selling oysters on the half-shell. When John Rotonti, owner of Felix's Restaurant and Oyster Bar, called the distributor on Tuesday, Minutillo answered the phone, "No Oyster Lenny."
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It's not just about the damn oil. There are other industries based around the gulf waters that are being decimated by this spill. So, forgive some of us if we're less than sympathetic to the industry "getting back to work."

If every rig in the gulf sailed away, I could not be happier. Residents of the gulf coast have worried about this for years.

To take your views to a reasonable conclusion, Aunt Spiker: You don't live on the gulf, so your opinions on this issue don't matter. That is, after all, what you're saying to Orion.

The problem is that it's the same water, the same earth. What Cuba does in international waters impacts us directly. What the U.S. does impacts Canada, and vice versa. We all have a right, on this board, to express our opinions. Don't like that? Get the **** over it.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Orion and others may not be from the U.S., but I am. And, as a Floridian, I'd like to say to the Louisiana oil workers, in the nicest possible way: **** YOUR JOBS.

Maybe this is a sign from the universe that it's time to find a different line of work.
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Once again: what jobs? What other line of work? There isn't anything - the market for employment has been tapped dry.
We're not exactly brimming with production and multiple choice options for the unemployed.

Aside that - you anti-oil people REALLY think the ONLY use for oil is fuel for our cars!

Heavy bottoms - like asphalt, bitumen, tar

Petrochemicals - used as a feedstock for many everyday products:

* plastic gadgets, tools, bags, toys
* candles
* clothing (polyester, nylon)
* hand lotions
* petroleum jelly
* perfume
* dishwashing liquids
* ink
* bubble gums
* car tires
* ammonia
* Natural gas
* Paraffin wax

When you support nipping the entire industry of oil-production you thusly are supporting nipping everything off this list.

We will still - always - need oil to refine it into all of these products. Supporting natural/renewable-fuel sources can greatly reduce our dependency on oil - and is a more legitimate and focused thought process to have and argument to make.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
Once again: what jobs? What other line of work? There isn't anything - the market for employment has been tapped dry.
We will still - always - need oil to refine it into all of these products. Supporting natural/renewable-fuel sources can greatly reduce our dependency on oil - and is a more legitimate and focused thought process to have and argument to make.
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There are other sources of petroleum besides the rigs in the gulf, and perhaps those industries should start to see this as a sign that it's time to pursue other ways of manufacturing their products.

Shockingly enough there are already products on the shelves that do not rely on toxic petrochemicals...

Buy.com - Free & Clear Natural Dishwashing Liquid, Non-Toxic, 25 oz. Bottle

Buying Guide - Body & Hand Lotions - The Green Guide

Furthermore, decreased access to petroleum would force plastics manufacturers to design packaging with less plastic, and would get rid of this problem:

http://gogreen.motivators.com/image.axd?picture=PlasticWaterBottles.jpg

Recycled plastic would become a hot commodity, and maybe then people would be motivated to do something about the 38 billion plastic bottles that pile up in landfills annually.

NEW INDUSTRIES would replace the existing industries. That's how a free market economy works.

Remember...we once used whale oil for lamps, until the whales were hunted to near extinction.

There are alternative product formulations in every category you named that don't require petrochemicals. Corporate America has little incentive to use different formulations that don't require a toxic industry that kills our land and waters, but an oil shortage could be highly motivational to all of us...in a good way.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Here it is, from a gulf perspective:

THE MORE THE MERRIER.

Gulf oil spill puts oyster shuckers, traditions on ice | NOLA.com



It's not just about the damn oil. There are other industries based around the gulf waters that are being decimated by this spill. So, forgive some of us if we're less than sympathetic to the industry "getting back to work."

If every rig in the gulf sailed away, I could not be happier. Residents of the gulf coast have worried about this for years.

To take your views to a reasonable conclusion, Aunt Spiker: You don't live on the gulf, so your opinions on this issue don't matter. That is, after all, what you're saying to Orion.

The problem is that it's the same water, the same earth. What Cuba does in international waters impacts us directly. What the U.S. does impacts Canada, and vice versa. We all have a right, on this board, to express our opinions. Don't like that? Get the **** over it.
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Ah - yeah - revenge and "if I don't get to have my income then you can't either!" attitude is counterproductive and childish.

The fact of the matter is that it's an industry which employs a lot of people for things *other* that fueling your car for things that we use EVERY day and purchase and really depend on. . . so, if you want them to REALLY not have a market to produce for then step it up and PROVE to us we don't *need* oil by getting rid of EVERYING that's made from it . . . out the door your plastics, tires, hand lotions, perfumes, nylon stockings, pens (you know - INK) and printergs (you know - INK and PLASTIC) and prove to us we don't *neeeeed* it at all.

Go on - show us somethin' baby!

If you're THAT against something then STOP using it - boycott everything that comes from the industry you, Orion and everyone claims to hate - but gainfully employs at the same time.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Ah - yeah - revenge and "if I don't get to have my income then you can't either!" attitude is counterproductive and childish.

The fact of the matter is that it's an industry which employs a lot of people for things *other* that fueling your car for things that we use EVERY day and purchase and really depend on. . . so, if you want them to REALLY not have a market to produce for then step it up and PROVE to us we don't *need* oil by getting rid of EVERYING that's made from it . . . out the door your plastics, tires, hand lotions, perfumes, nylon stockings, pens (you know - INK) and printergs (you know - INK and PLASTIC) and prove to us we don't *neeeeed* it at all.

Go on - show us somethin' baby!

If you're THAT against something then STOP using it - boycott everything that comes from the industry you, Orion and everyone claims to hate - but gainfully employs at the same time.
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Actually, if you love them so much, perhaps you could let them drill in your backyard.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, if you love them so much, perhaps you could let them drill in your backyard.
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Sure - why not!
If I had oil brewing under my land you bet your ass I'd sell my property to the company in a HEARTBEAT.

Now - don't you forget that I, too, support switching over to more natural sources of energy/etc - but it takes *time* and *money* to do it - on every scale. . . it cannot be done with a snap of your fingers. That type of change cannot happen over night! That has been my point for a long time - even before this disaster started.

that is *my* point - it cannot happen quickly. It cannot happen over night. Sure, it should happen - I believe in changing more so because I don't feel we should ever have to depend on other countries just to drive around, you know . . . but, what *is* in place isn't adequate enough.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
that is *my* point - it cannot happen quickly. It cannot happen over night. Sure, it should happen - I believe in changing more so because I don't feel we should ever have to depend on other countries just to drive around, you know . . . but, what *is* in place isn't adequate enough.
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Perhaps you'd see the timeline differently if your backyard was being poisoned. We would adjust, relatively quickly. Drilling in the gulf has never been a safe or sustainable venture. If this gives us an excuse to have to shift faster, then that's a good thing.

I remember how quickly the U.S. economy shifted when gas prices went over $3 a gallon. Suddenly, within 6 months, people weren't buying SUVs and big trucks anymore, hybrids and economy cars were cheap.

Sometimes, I think, people need a financial incentive to do what should have been done years ago. And our free market adapts remarkably quickly. Trust the free market, Auntie. The free market can save you.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Perhaps you'd see the timeline differently if your backyard was being poisoned. We would adjust, relatively quickly. Drilling in the gulf has never been a safe or sustainable venture. If this gives us an excuse to have to shift faster, then that's a good thing.
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Ok - huge difference between my backyard on land and the ocean. . .on land oil cleanup is messy but rather simple in comparison - and a disaster would be localized, that's just the nature of it.

And I agree - it's never been safe or sustainable. I agree.
But ending it cannot happen quickly, overnight. That is just a fact. It simply can't - and tossing out a moratorium isn't actually helping right now, either.
 
Orion said:
With all due respect, I could be afforded more respect than that. Last time I checked this forum isn't for Americans only. If you don't like that, maybe you should shove off. :2wave:
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Considering your lack of attack on your own country and your constant attack on mine, you deserve no respect.

It's our country, our problem. Our jobs. We don't need some fly by night Canadian pitching in his 2 cents unless its how to plug the hole or contain the oil. Got it? AS is right, where is your criticizm of Canada and all their little problems? You come into a forum and knock our country not caring about thousands of people that would be unemployed and you expect me to respect you? You better be glad this forum is moderated or you would definitely hear what I really think about you.

When you don't respect the jobs of my state I don't respect you, period. This forum isn't for Americans only, but if all you're going to do is knock my country, to use your own words, "shove off."
 
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Not using oil is not an option, sorry it doesn't work like that.

We can talk about green this and natural that but a lot, if not most, of those things are also made using petroleum distillates.

If we are forced to switch, well expect your standard of living to go way down.
Almost everything in your life involves the use of some petroleum by product and the "green" products usually cost a lot more to add to your life.
 
Your Star said:
There are no jobs, I know. But you know who can create jobs, the government. Have a government job program doing things that would benefit the country.
Click to expand...

You need private sector jobs to pay for government jobs. The government doesn't produce anything. They have no money of their own. Every government job produced is money from taxpayers. The best thing Obama could do would be to cut government jobs instead of bragging about all those he has created.
This oil thing and loss of more jobs due to Obama's agenda is not something to celebrate. He could benefit the country by getting out of the way and stop destroying jobs. But benifitting Americans doesn't seem to be his agenda at all.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
There are other sources of petroleum besides the rigs in the gulf, and perhaps those industries should start to see this as a sign that it's time to pursue other ways of manufacturing their products.

Shockingly enough there are already products on the shelves that do not rely on toxic petrochemicals...

Buy.com - Free & Clear Natural Dishwashing Liquid, Non-Toxic, 25 oz. Bottle

Buying Guide - Body & Hand Lotions - The Green Guide

Furthermore, decreased access to petroleum would force plastics manufacturers to design packaging with less plastic, and would get rid of this problem:

http://gogreen.motivators.com/image.axd?picture=PlasticWaterBottles.jpg

Recycled plastic would become a hot commodity, and maybe then people would be motivated to do something about the 38 billion plastic bottles that pile up in landfills annually.

NEW INDUSTRIES would replace the existing industries. That's how a free market economy works.

Remember...we once used whale oil for lamps, until the whales were hunted to near extinction.

There are alternative product formulations in every category you named that don't require petrochemicals. Corporate America has little incentive to use different formulations that don't require a toxic industry that kills our land and waters, but an oil shortage could be highly motivational to all of us...in a good way.
Click to expand...

Whale oil was replaced by affordable kerosene from petroleum. I think you can credit that as much as anything else to saving the whales.
 
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