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Thread: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    People were asking for me to respond to questions about the "death panel" earlier, so here goes.

    All health care is rationed. Whether on government-run Medicare/Medicaid/VA or in private industry. Health care resources and the money to pay for them are not in unlimited supply. Somebody, in private or public healthcare, makes a decision on the claims that come in and what sort of procedures to pay for. Whether you want to call it a "death panel" or not is up to you, but whatever you call it, it already exists.

    "Obamacare" does not substantially alter Medicare or Medicaid in how they go about doing this, so there's no "new" death panel, despite what Sarah Palin will tell you. The situation is pretty much exactly what it was before. In fact, private industry is being affected more significantly than Medicare, but they're still going to be private employees of private companies making decision about private healthcare delivered by private physicians.

    Relating more directly back to the subject, a good rule of thumb is that if you find yourself cutting out sentences to help prove your point about something a person says, you've already lost. The "rationing expert" was saying we already ration health care, but that we do it "blindly." Clearly he is not saying "Hey, we should start rationing health care!"

    We ration health care in this country, but we don't have a good, systematic way of determining how best to spend the limited resources we have. Right now, it's left up to whichever profit-motivated insurance company employee happens to pull up your claim. The outcome of those choices is not well tracked or measured, and that should change so that we can improve the situation going forward.

    This thread is yet another example of blind partisan nonsense, the infuriatingly-typical tactic of taking statements out of context to mean exactly the opposite of their intent.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-08-10 at 06:24 PM.
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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    People were asking for me to respond to questions about the "death panel" earlier, so here goes.

    All health care is rationed. Whether on government-run Medicare/Medicaid/VA or in private industry. Health care resources and the money to pay for them are not in unlimited supply. Somebody, in private or public healthcare, makes a decision on the claims that come in and what sort of procedures to pay for. Whether you want to call it a "death panel" or not is up to you, but whatever you call it, it already exists.
    So let me summarize. Death panels already exist and will continue to exist and expand under Obama Care. So "death panels" was a correct statement - though the term itself is incindiary - though I don't know why. Can't we call a spade a spade?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce
    More to the point, the man is right about rationing. We already ration healthcare in this country. All healthcare is rationed. Why is talking about it so upsetting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham
    So death panels were accurate?
    Nope!! Rationing is not what conservatives were referring to when they popularized the phrase 'Death Panels'.

    Death panels was in reference to the end of life counseling in the health care bill, not rationing.
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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Not for nothing...but why? Why do you personally find it insulting?

    Before the days of the politically correct dictionary mental retardation was not considered an insult but rather a descriptor amongst the medical community. And while Down is a chromosomal disorder there is no denying that many suffer from some level of mental retardation. Thems the facts. And if it is just that it bothers you because ugly people use it as an insult, well...you might want to consider how much control and responsibility for your own happiness you put in someone elses hands. It certainly says far more about the individual than the child...

    And for the record, my oldest sister in law had Down...and she was a wonderful person...a true blessing in my life...
    Vance - thanks for trying. I was posting using vernacular attributed to "Palin Hating Leftists" with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. It was obviously lost on some who instead decided to get their knickers in a knot over my word selection. These are, of course, the same people who have no problem with the use of the words "leftard" or "libtard" - gawd forbid I might actually offend the offspring of their goddess. Truth be told, I think Trig is the smart one in the family.

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So let me summarize. Death panels already exist and will continue to exist and expand under Obama Care. So "death panels" was a correct statement - though the term itself is incindiary - though I don't know why. Can't we call a spade a spade?
    Um...in a word, "no."

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeRain View Post
    Palin's...retarded kid.
    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeRain View Post
    Is it possible for you to stay out of the gutter? Or are you always this much of a jerk?
    Good question. Ask yourself.


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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Good question. Ask yourself.
    See post #74.

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The GOP has been blocking almost every single appointment, why would this one be any different?
    Thank God for the GOP, too. Every appointment has been some pinko-commie-asshole. This guys is a prime example.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Thank God for the GOP, too. Every appointment has been some pinko-commie-asshole. This guys is a prime example.
    Not every appointment has been some pinko commie asshole. Rahm Emmanuel is a ballet loving gay jew boy. Get your facts straight.

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    Re: President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator Rationing Expert

    So much incorrect.......so little time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    People were asking for me to respond to questions about the "death panel" earlier, so here goes.

    All health care is rationed. Whether on government-run Medicare/Medicaid/VA or in private industry. Health care resources and the money to pay for them are not in unlimited supply. Somebody, in private or public healthcare, makes a decision on the claims that come in and what sort of procedures to pay for. Whether you want to call it a "death panel" or not is up to you, but whatever you call it, it already exists.
    Private companies do not "ration" care, there is not a waiting list unless the physician cannot schedule a surgery or other procedure immediately. Denials of coverage happen for a multitude of reasons and differing frequencies depending on the coverage model and they fall under different reasons such as a younger person requiring a surgery that usually is a later requirement in life, a detailed physicians report will remedy that immediately, as well, there may be a network conflict and a practitioner may not be in the approved network, this is remedied when the practitioner decides to join and usually happens in PPOs, OPOs, and other provider network products. Medicare and Medicaid have the highest denials(government) as does the VA system(government) and the VA has one of the worst satisfaction ratings of any system. Under a government rationing body the reasons are simply that no other procedures can be covered for the time certain so it isn't even remotely the same thing. But I'm sure in your expert(snicker) opinion you already knew this right?

    "Obamacare" does not substantially alter Medicare or Medicaid in how they go about doing this, so there's no "new" death panel, despite what Sarah Palin will tell you. The situation is pretty much exactly what it was before. In fact, private industry is being affected more significantly than Medicare, but they're still going to be private employees of private companies making decision about private healthcare delivered by private physicians.
    Does the term "best practices" mean anything to you? Think the NICE board of the UK. Massive fail on this point.
    Relating more directly back to the subject, a good rule of thumb is that if you find yourself cutting out sentences to help prove your point about something a person says, you've already lost. The "rationing expert" was saying we already ration health care, but that we do it "blindly." Clearly he is not saying "Hey, we should start rationing health care!"
    In full context it's clear exactly what this guy wants. This was an epic fail on your part.

    We ration health care in this country, but we don't have a good, systematic way of determining how best to spend the limited resources we have. Right now, it's left up to whichever profit-motivated insurance company employee happens to pull up your claim. The outcome of those choices is not well tracked or measured, and that should change so that we can improve the situation going forward.
    Repetition of wrong does not change wrong. But it does get repetitive.

    This thread is yet another example of blind partisan nonsense, the infuriatingly-typical tactic of taking statements out of context to mean exactly the opposite of their intent.
    It's partisan as hell to jump on the UHC bandwagon because the Dems said it was a good idea, even moreso to twist and turn to make garbage more palatable.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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