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Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown

I mean, what kind of fascist crap is that? If I buy a CD, I am going to use it in any device I have, and that should be my right as a consumer. With this law, you don't own the CD, you are renting it, and rental comes with rules. That is what DMR essentially is becoming in the modern world.

The funny thing is, these kinds of draconian laws will just push more people to download illegally.

This is also a very good point. Why would someone pay $.99 cents for a ridiculously DRM'd song when they could get an unencumbered version for free? If you buy a movie on DVD, there are usually 10 minutes of unskippable ****tastic previews that you have to sit through. If you torrent it, you can just cut right to the movie in VLC media player. I take DVDs that I own and rip them for myself just to avoid that bull****.

When the "finished product" that the studios are offering is actually less valuable than the product available elsewhere, you're going to see people who would normally be glad to buy the product legitimately turn to the black market instead.
 
You do know you never owned the music that you purchased, right? It's merely a license to listen on the format provided. I prefer "fair use" rights that provide more for me, but we only own the physical copy that we originally purchase.

This is sort of the point - what if you wanted to "own" the music in question so that you could listen to it in whatever format you wanted? What would you recommend doing?
 
I am taking the lazy way out to reply to this thread (and to reinforce the point initially made by RightinNYC) since I had already written on the subject in these forums and it is directly on topic, if not a tad dated:

I had been playing a "pirated" copy of Dragon Age - Origins all weekend. I went out and bought it yesterday (despite EA being the middleman as publisher, Bioware deserves my money and encouragement to continue to put out great games such as this).

I have no qualms about "test driving" games, there are many I play a few hours and never return to, not something that would warrant a $50 or so expenditure.

Once upon a time I used to go to blockbuster frequently to rent games to test out, and if i enjoyed the game I would then purchase it. This option is not available for PC games though, which makes no sense since many of the same games are now available on both console and PC. We have different rules for essentially the same product.

Had I not had the opportunity to test drive games beforehand, I would have bought Cities XL at face value, and had been PISSED off at the choice. I also would not have had the money to buy Dragon Age since it would have gone towards a crappy game with underhanded marketing tactics instead of going in support of a game developer that has yet again put out a product very deserving of my money, and my support.

I also have quite a few games that I have purchased that had I not been exposed to them via illegitimate sources, I would have never thought to purchase in the first place. "Piracy" in these instances has resulted in free marketing of their product, and generated sales that would have not occurred otherwise.

Anyhow, time to go play Dragon Age, despite the only reason that I cracked the seal on the box was to take a peek at the game manual, and the DVD's with the data on them will remain untouched :2razz:

I recently tested Toy Story 3, and although I did not play it for more than an hour or so, I recommended it to a friend who bought a copy for his son, and I also found a WWII strategy game (that I would have NEVER been exposed to had it not been posted online), that although still buggy I am seriously considering purchase if they rectify the problems - problems that would generate animosity and horrible word of mouth towards their product if I had purchased the game and then encountered them, instead now I sit back to see if they patch the game and overcome the problems, and if so they earn $50 of my cash for the game and they are spared the bad word of mouth and may actually net a second sale when I recruit a buddy of mine who also likes games in the genre to buy it as well so we can play head to head.
 
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This is also a very good point. Why would someone pay $.99 cents for a ridiculously DRM'd song when they could get an unencumbered version for free? If you buy a movie on DVD, there are usually 10 minutes of unskippable ****tastic previews that you have to sit through. If you torrent it, you can just cut right to the movie in VLC media player. I take DVDs that I own and rip them for myself just to avoid that bull****.

When the "finished product" that the studios are offering is actually less valuable than the product available elsewhere, you're going to see people who would normally be glad to buy the product legitimately turn to the black market instead.

It's the current corporate-consumer climate that we live in. They are trying to make modern digital content, which is essentially unlimited in its distributive nature, move backwards into forms of media like tape decks and records that didn't have the same fluid function. Why is our society letting these people hold us back? The digital era is here and the way humans interact with media and information has changed immensely. They need to adapt or get out.

But instead, we are being forced to conform to their old-world thinking, pay for it, and then have to suffer through their marketing anyway. It's such an audacious slap in the face.

As long as DMR laws continue to be shoved down our throats, I will continue to pirate until the end of my days as protest. Screw their "ownership".
 
What are the economics behind the music industry?
I understand producers not being happy if their products are copied and sold. But are we being fleeced for our music? How much do artists make and how much goes directly to costs out of the income?
 
What are the economics behind the music industry?
I understand producers not being happy if their products are copied and sold. But are we being fleeced for our music? How much do artists make and how much goes directly to costs out of the income?

The Problem With Music

In that article, a record producer discloses information regarding the cost of production and the money earned by the actual band members.

Here's some more stuff that is albiet incredibly biased

boycott-riaa.com - Facts - The Truth
 
The laws that the corporate powers are pushing go above and beyond simple ownership rights. Right now in Canada, the anti-piracy law being discussed in parliament - which, by the way, most Canadians oppose but the ruling party is ignoring us and listening to corporations instead - makes it illegal to jail break devices or rip from one format to another.

In other words, if I buy a music CD, it would be a punishable offense to rip that music for use in my ipod, even though I acquired the CD legally. They would instead want me to buy yet another version, the mp3 version, from an online store.

I mean, what kind of fascist crap is that? If I buy a CD, I am going to use it in any device I have, and that should be my right as a consumer. With this law, you don't own the CD, you are renting it, and rental comes with rules. That is what DMR essentially is becoming in the modern world.

The funny thing is, these kinds of draconian laws will just push more people to download illegally. Why would I go out and buy a CD if I can't own it or use it how I want like I would any of my own property? I mean, as long as I'm not sending copies to my friends, why should my activities be illegal? This has HUGE implications for how schools use content, other artists (like DJs), etc.

The level of corporate control is just too much right now. It needs to be shut down with proper democratic controls that favor MODERATE and reasonable consumer laws.

But no... instead we are deferring to crime and punishment, as usual. Create more crimes, and create more punishments. Make the jails bigger. Take away freedoms from more people for things that shouldn't be crimes in the first place.

Ok - now *this* I agree with you on.
If you *buy* a cd/movie you should be able to make a legal-backup or put it on your ipod :thumbs:

I tend to buy mp3's through napster because I often don't like whole 'albums' and then I put them wherever. . . within my legal right.
 
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Not even the Obama Administration can save the failing music and film industry. People don't feel guilty downloading this stuff for free because it's swill. It's all mediocre crap. This should inspire the music and film industry to put out stuff that is actually worthy of paying for.
 
I still don't understand how having a problem with the way the industry functions translates into it being "ok" for someone to just take what they want without paying for it.

The problem *I* have with the industries is that they screw the artists out of *their* money. . . I have no problem support artists that I favor like Peter Steele (RIP), Trent Reznor, Rasputina and Henry Rollins - If I want their *items* I buy it from as close to source as possible if it's beyond my downloads.

I'd rather pay money to own something in hopes that their earned and entitled meager cut gets to *them* - as they are due - rather than rob them of my :twocents: that they will ultimately get in order to screw over their production company.

Not all artists deal with devils in the industry - does anyone care when it comes to that? Do you support Independent artists who avoid the industry brouhaha purely on principle? Do you go out of your way to directly contribute to all venues that aren't fleecing or skimming off the top in effort to stand up against the industry itself?

Just because you feel *they're* screwing you doesn't mean that the artist you *do* like should be screwed *by* you in your process of throwing a entertainment hissy fit.
 
This is also a very good point. Why would someone pay $.99 cents for a ridiculously DRM'd song when they could get an unencumbered version for free? If you buy a movie on DVD, there are usually 10 minutes of unskippable ****tastic previews that you have to sit through. If you torrent it, you can just cut right to the movie in VLC media player. I take DVDs that I own and rip them for myself just to avoid that bull****.

When the "finished product" that the studios are offering is actually less valuable than the product available elsewhere, you're going to see people who would normally be glad to buy the product legitimately turn to the black market instead.

YouTube - Gabe Newell on Good Game

Skip to about a minute in.
 
I still don't understand how having a problem with the way the industry functions translates into it being "ok" for someone to just take what they want without paying for it.

To be clear, I'm not saying it makes it okay, I'm just explaining the reasons why many people don't feel particularly bad about it.

The problem *I* have with the industries is that they screw the artists out of *their* money. . . I have no problem support artists that I favor like Peter Steele (RIP), Trent Reznor, Rasputina and Henry Rollins - If I want their *items* I buy it from as close to source as possible if it's beyond my downloads.

I'd rather pay money to own something in hopes that their earned and entitled meager cut gets to *them* - as they are due - rather than rob them of my :twocents: that they will ultimately get in order to screw over their production company.

Not all artists deal with devils in the industry - does anyone care when it comes to that? Do you support Independent artists who avoid the industry brouhaha purely on principle? Do you go out of your way to directly contribute to all venues that aren't fleecing or skimming off the top in effort to stand up against the industry itself?

Of course. One of my favorite musicians was sick of record company bull****, so he decided to do hsi own project. Every single week for a year, he wrote, recorded, and released a new song to members of his website. For $25, you got 52 songs in any high qualify format you wanted with no DRM limitations. Thousands of people signed up, but I don't see a single copy of the music on any pirate site. People were more than happy to give the money directly to the artist when he responded to their needs. Another artist (who raises copyright issues himself with his music) makes it available as pay what you like from a small artist-run label.
 
One other thing - many of the policies that IP rules try to enforce don't seem to make much sense.

Imagine that I want to watch an episode of Always Sunny. I can either turn on FX and watch it legally or go to a streaming TV site and watch it illegally. Why does FX want me to watch it on TV rather than online? Because there are commercials on TV and I'm forced to watch it at the time they want me to watch it. However, if I have a TiVo, I'm skipping those commercials and watching it whenever I want, the same way as if I watched it online. What policy does it really serve to make streaming online illegal when someone can "rob" the network of the exact same rights by legally using a TiVo?

Additionally - one way that the vast majority of content-providing websites pay for their material is by placing ads on their sites. I use several adblockers, so I don't see any of those. Why is that legal? If the NYT pays its reporters salaries through ad revenue and I'm blocking their ads, aren't I just stealing their content? Yet despite that, nobody seems to have a problem with pop-up blockers.
 
The law says it is a violation to make unauthorized copies of material available under copyright. This is the foundation on which creative people make a living.

What I read here is a lot of self serving justifications for violations of that law and a suggestion that we premise an honor system based on people who entered the system through such violations of the law. After all, we can trust them of all people!

What we have here is another example of the “something for nothing” crowd. We see it in the Tea Party followers who tell us they want an end to deficit spending but won't tolerate any discussion that taxes be raised or Medicare or Social Security or any other program that serves them be cut. We see it with Republicans demanding that all economic stimulus spending be paid for, even unemployment insurance extensions, but refuse to pay for Bush tax extenders. We see it in the demands by a Louisiana governor for unabated Gulf oil exploration even as he's demanding that the oil spill containment be stepped up. These people are living in Bizarro World.

Rudy Giuliani prosecuted minor crime infractions and changed the culture in NYC. I say it's time to prosecute all copyright unauthorized copying violations, every last one. It wouldn't trouble me one bit to see many here owing thousands to the music, movie, video game and book industries.

BTW, copyright law is too complicated and it, too, exists in Bizarro World. I offer as evidence the excellent film: Sita Sings The Blues. Now here's a film where the rights to make copies has been freely given away. Take the time to download the extras (available on the DVD image) and listen to Nina Paley describe her ordeals with archaic copyright law. It's an eye opener. I don't doubt that some people would want to use this condition as yet another justification for their violations but of course that's just more self serving dribble. Consider this, Nina Paley came to terms with copyright law difficult as it was.
 
I still don't understand how having a problem with the way the industry functions translates into it being "ok" for someone to just take what they want without paying for it.

The problem *I* have with the industries is that they screw the artists out of *their* money. . . I have no problem support artists that I favor like Peter Steele (RIP), Trent Reznor, Rasputina and Henry Rollins - If I want their *items* I buy it from as close to source as possible if it's beyond my downloads.

I'd rather pay money to own something in hopes that their earned and entitled meager cut gets to *them* - as they are due - rather than rob them of my :twocents: that they will ultimately get in order to screw over their production company.

Not all artists deal with devils in the industry - does anyone care when it comes to that? Do you support Independent artists who avoid the industry brouhaha purely on principle? Do you go out of your way to directly contribute to all venues that aren't fleecing or skimming off the top in effort to stand up against the industry itself?

Just because you feel *they're* screwing you doesn't mean that the artist you *do* like should be screwed *by* you in your process of throwing a entertainment hissy fit.

Funny you should mention Trent Reznor, "So I'd be surprised if he could legally authorize fans to "steal it," as he instructed attendees at a recent concert in Sydney, Australia."

"Reznor's eagerness to share the record with fans hasn't been confined to Australia, however. To promote the album, he leaked three tracks as MP3s, fully intending them to be passed around online. At the time he said the freebies were an attempt to boost sales, not crater them. Although his comments in Australia go further, they are in line with his previous remarks about the labels' greed and separation from music fans."

Trent Reznor on CD prices | Bit Player | Los Angeles Times

I am perfectly comfortable taking what I want because, the industry is using government to prop itself and it's prices up, they have to go outside of normal market conditions to earn a buck.
No thanks, enticing government to use force for your benefit is not cool at any level.

Not only that but it is said that many of the movie makers intentionally release early copies to judge movie sale projections, if they are doing that they have gave up control of ownership.

The civil settlements used against uploaders have been ridiculous.
Charging people thousands of dollars for uploading a handful of songs, that aren't worth it on a per song level.

Lastly, trying to get government to require even more DRM in our consumer electronics, I don't want to lose control over things I pay money for, they are supposed to be mine.

It's retaliation against their moronic and abusive behavior.
 
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The law says it is a violation to make unauthorized copies of material available under copyright. This is the foundation on which creative people make a living.

What I read here is a lot of self serving justifications for violations of that law and a suggestion that we premise an honor system based on people who entered the system through such violations of the law. After all, we can trust them of all people!

What we have here is another example of the “something for nothing” crowd. We see it in the Tea Party followers who tell us they want an end to deficit spending but won't tolerate any discussion that taxes be raised or Medicare or Social Security or any other program that serves them be cut. We see it with Republicans demanding that all economic stimulus spending be paid for, even unemployment insurance extensions, but refuse to pay for Bush tax extenders. We see it in the demands by a Louisiana governor for unabated Gulf oil exploration even as he's demanding that the oil spill containment be stepped up. These people are living in Bizarro World.

Rudy Giuliani prosecuted minor crime infractions and changed the culture in NYC. I say it's time to prosecute all copyright unauthorized copying violations, every last one. It wouldn't trouble me one bit to see many here owing thousands to the music, movie, video game and book industries.

BTW, copyright law is too complicated and it, too, exists in Bizarro World. I offer as evidence the excellent film: Sita Sings The Blues. Now here's a film where the rights to make copies has been freely given away. Take the time to download the extras (available on the DVD image) and listen to Nina Paley describe her ordeals with archaic copyright law. It's an eye opener. I don't doubt that some people would want to use this condition as yet another justification for their violations but of course that's just more self serving dribble. Consider this, Nina Paley came to terms with copyright law difficult as it was.

It's funny how people like you are more than willing to toss someone under the bus for copyright infringement.
Social justice my ass.

You're authoritarians to the core. :lol:
 
It's funny how people like you are more than willing to toss someone under the bus for copyright infringement.
Social justice my ass.

You're authoritarians to the core. :lol:

Darn people thinking laws mean something.
 
So you're cool with gay marriage not being legal right?

It is the law after all.:roll:

Gay marriage and stealing are not quite the same thing. Nice try though.

I suppose you support bootlegging being legal, right?
 
Gay marriage and stealing are not quite the same thing. Nice try though.

I suppose you support bootlegging being legal, right?

Who said anything about stealing?

You said, "Darn people thinking laws mean something."
I sounds like you're more interested in following laws, whether or not, they make sense to follow.

No I don't necessarily support bootlegging, unless the person doing it adds value to it.
 
The law says it is a violation to make unauthorized copies of material available under copyright. This is the foundation on which creative people make a living.

What I read here is a lot of self serving justifications for violations of that law and a suggestion that we premise an honor system based on people who entered the system through such violations of the law. After all, we can trust them of all people!

I don't see anyone saying this.

What we have here is another example of the “something for nothing” crowd. We see it in the Tea Party followers who tell us they want an end to deficit spending but won't tolerate any discussion that taxes be raised or Medicare or Social Security or any other program that serves them be cut. We see it with Republicans demanding that all economic stimulus spending be paid for, even unemployment insurance extensions, but refuse to pay for Bush tax extenders. We see it in the demands by a Louisiana governor for unabated Gulf oil exploration even as he's demanding that the oil spill containment be stepped up. These people are living in Bizarro World.

Let's not make the least political issue I can think of into a conservative-liberal name calling battle.


Rudy Giuliani prosecuted minor crime infractions and changed the culture in NYC. I say it's time to prosecute all copyright unauthorized copying violations, every last one. It wouldn't trouble me one bit to see many here owing thousands to the music, movie, video game and book industries.

When you say "prosecute," exactly what do you mean? 99.9+% of copyright infringement is a civil, not criminal matter.

BTW, copyright law is too complicated and it, too, exists in Bizarro World. I offer as evidence the excellent film: Sita Sings The Blues. Now here's a film where the rights to make copies has been freely given away. Take the time to download the extras (available on the DVD image) and listen to Nina Paley describe her ordeals with archaic copyright law. It's an eye opener. I don't doubt that some people would want to use this condition as yet another justification for their violations but of course that's just more self serving dribble. Consider this, Nina Paley came to terms with copyright law difficult as it was.

And it makes a compelling argument for reforming it.

Again, can anyone explain why TiVo and Adblocker are legal while streaming a TV show online is not?
 
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Gay marriage and stealing are not quite the same thing. Nice try though.

Gay marriage and piracy aren't comparable, but piracy and stealing equals a valid comparison, right. :roll:

As for your previous comment, I chuckle. The law meant something, but that meaning is continually lost as the years go on, as corporations control it for their own narrow purposes - A copyright can last > 135 years EASILY, congress can take works that are already in the public domain out, and the laws concerning fair use are becoming so muddy we don't know what is what. I say before we praise the laws, we should FIX them first.
 
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I_Steal_Music_FromThe_Internet_by_Shmock.png
 
Who said anything about stealing?

You said, "Darn people thinking laws mean something."
I sounds like you're more interested in following laws, whether or not, they make sense to follow.

No I don't necessarily support bootlegging, unless the person doing it adds value to it.

Stealing(which is what piracy is in it's way) is not like gay marriage. For the record though, if some one defrauds the government into giving them a gay marriage in a state where it is not allowed, then yes, they deserve to be prosecuted. Laws are the glue that holds society together. Just because I don't like them is not an excuse to ignore them.

Since we both(sorta) agree on bootlegging, let me ask a couple more questions. If I take a splitter and hook myself up to my neighbors cable and get cable for free(yes, I know this no longer works, but it used to), is that wrong? If a website copy/pastes full articles from other sites without permission and posts them on their website, is that wrong?
 
I'm not a huge opponent of IP law, but this type of statement just doesn't make any sense. There's a pretty obvious distinction between the duplication of IP and the physical deprivation of a tangible object.

Is not the tangible product the song itself. Which is generally copywrited

It is the song itself that the artist created, and uses to make money

GM produces a car and makes multiple copies of it to make money, it is illegal for Ford to copy the design of a GM car and produce it. GM lost no tangible object but what Ford did is illegal and it would be punished for it

As such making copies of a song, and giving it out to other people is infringing on the artists rights to that song.

In my opinion

Making copies for personal use is fine, making copies to distribute to potentially thousands of other people is in effect theft
 
Stealing(which is what piracy is in it's way) is not like gay marriage. For the record though, if some one defrauds the government into giving them a gay marriage in a state where it is not allowed, then yes, they deserve to be prosecuted. Laws are the glue that holds society together. Just because I don't like them is not an excuse to ignore them.

Except these laws do not serve as a glue that binds people together.

They exist to allow monetary gain far outside reasonable bounds, unless you believe that dead people should be legally allowed to own things or allow corporations to own ideas for 90 years.

Ideas, once released, can not be controlled it's insanity to believe otherwise.

You cannot steal something that is not physical and can be replicated infinitely, at almost 0 cost.

Since we both(sorta) agree on bootlegging, let me ask a couple more questions. If I take a splitter and hook myself up to my neighbors cable and get cable for free(yes, I know this no longer works, but it used to), is that wrong? If a website copy/pastes full articles from other sites without permission and posts them on their website, is that wrong?

Depends, you do subsidize the cable companies by helping provide the infrastructure that they transmit their product through.
I think it would be fair that they are require to offer everyone a basic set of channels.

I don't see it as wrong, as long as the law stays unreasonable, as it is now.
If the laws change, I may change my mind but until then I have no sympathy towards IP owners.
 
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