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Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

Ockham said:
It's easy to figure out who's lying by asking, who benefits from the lie? Obama benefits as he doesn't want to be seen as negligent at securing the border. Kyl has nothing to gain by lying. Simple.
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No, that s false. Liars sometimes tell the turth, and honest men sometimes lie, we people often believe a lie. And Kyl does have something to gain, he musters public support. He has to hope no one questions him or asks that he prove his accusations.
 
If Kyl is willing to go before a Judge/Jury/Tribunal under oath and be subject to cross examination. Then we can attest to whether what he said was true.

In the end HE made the accusation and HE has to prove it...
 
Kyl doesn't have a record of lying, Obama has changed his fortunes drastically by portraying himself as a Uniter, post-partisan, and then turns out to be the ultimate political hack.
He tells bald faced lies about his handling of the oil spill in his presser before going on vacation.

Further, it sounds exactly like Obama.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kyl and Obi under oath. I know where I'd place my money.

Let's for a moment say Kyl is lying.
I say it's a stroke of political genius right out of the left's playbook. But Kyl doesn't have a Machievellian streak. If B-1 Bob Dornen said it, then one would have to pause, or some other R firebrand. Obama probabaly wouldn't have been in the room alone with them.
Kyl has an excellent reputation, he always portrays a sense of calm and reason, even if you don't like R's.

The question is why would he sully it with a lie about POTUS? Obi has all the rope he needs and is tightening the noose with every passing day, every raw deal, and every lie and obfuscation.
Sestak, ObiKare, Immigration, The Gulf, trying to sideline FOXNEWS... etc...
POTUS is up to his ass in this because he is against the law and will of the people. That's enough.
This... only confirms Obi's hostilities to the immigration law. It is a perfect fit to his actions and words, and his manner of dealing with people.

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Personally, I trust Kyl over Obama. I believe Obama is an ideologically driven monster who would absolutely capitalize upon an insecure border in order to enact damaging immigration reform. However, I doubt why he would tell Kyl his plan blatantly like that. Regardless, I do believe Obama isn't securing the border so that he can push for his immigration agenda. I think he's also capitalizing on the oil spill in order to make it into some political front against oil and energy independence.
 
Jetboogieman said:
In the end HE made the accusation and HE has to prove it...
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He doesn't have to prove a thing. It was a one-on-one conversation - neither Obama nor Kyl can "prove" anything. It is now up to public opinion and leans on personal credibility and logic. Obama is the beneficiary of lying - Kyl is not. Then it's up to who people believe is more credible. The end.
 
Boo Radley said:
I noted in the earlier thread about Kyl that there was reason to doubt him. Only those who want it to be true accept his word unchallenged. None of us can know what was actually said there, but that's the point. When a politician says something he can't support, we should always doubt it.
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If Kyl is lying about Obama on border on border security and amnesty then what has Obama done to adequately secure the border?

 
jamesrage said:
If Kyl is lying about Obama on border on border security and amnesty then what has Obama done to adequately secure the border?
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Not the point James. I keep telling you neither party has done anything and I suspect neither will do anything, but none of that means any of them are telling the truth.
 
Boo Radley said:
Not the point James.
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You accused Kyl of lying or at least hinting at it.Surely if that was true then there should be some evidence like Obama doing something contrary to what Kyl said.


I keep telling you neither party has done anything and I suspect neither will do anything, but none of that means any of them are telling the truth.
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I am well aware that neither party is willing to do anything about at least on the federal level. It seems only on the local and state do the parties want to fix illegal immigration,perhaps that is because illegals are dealt with on the local and state level and local politicians live close to home.
 
Since amnesty has been at the heart of the Democrat position because they want the votes illegals will bring in since the vast majority would be democrats if they were handed citizenship
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Just like tax-breaks are a payout for republican voters and companies, right?
 
digsbe said:
Personally, I trust Kyl over Obama. I believe Obama is an ideologically driven monster who would absolutely capitalize upon an insecure border in order to enact damaging immigration reform. However, I doubt why he would tell Kyl his plan blatantly like that. Regardless, I do believe Obama isn't securing the border so that he can push for his immigration agenda. I think he's also capitalizing on the oil spill in order to make it into some political front against oil and energy independence.
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Oh, I have no doubt he would do it behind closed doors. When you tell people who they should or shouldn't listen to if they want to get things done with camera' running; behind closed doors and without a teleprompteur, I doubt this guy would hold back.

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jamesrage said:
You accused Kyl of lying or at least hinting at it.Surely if that was true then there should be some evidence like Obama doing something contrary to what Kyl said.



I am well aware that neither party is willing to do anything about at least on the federal level. It seems only on the local and state do the parties want to fix illegal immigration,perhaps that is because illegals are dealt with on the local and state level and local politicians live close to home.
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James read carefully. I said we should not trust any of them, including Kyl and Obama. It is too easy to say **** that is false if there is no evidence. All we can say is we don't know what was said, and can't accept either version. And if you say you're going to accept anyone without support, you become someone who can easily be fooled.

And no, I don't think there is really any will on the state level. The same reasons the Feds resist, the state officials resist. The laws to handle this are already on the books. All states have to do is enforce them. Instead, they play rhetorical games in order to fire up the voters, but at the end of the day, nothing will be done. We have a long history on this.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, that s false. Liars sometimes tell the turth, and honest men sometimes lie, we people often believe a lie. And Kyl does have something to gain, he musters public support. He has to hope no one questions him or asks that he prove his accusations.
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And here we go with the spin, Hey look, now we are NOT talking about Obama lying. It must not have happened. Never could have happened. Obama would not lie, it must be Kyl, look at all he has to gain. We are NOT talking about Obama. We are NOT talking about Obama. Kumbaya my lord Kumbaya,
 
Boo Radley said:
James read carefully. I said we should not trust any of them, including Kyl and Obama. It is too easy to say **** that is false if there is no evidence. All we can say is we don't know what was said, and can't accept either version. And if you say you're going to accept anyone without support, you become someone who can easily be fooled.

And no, I don't think there is really any will on the state level. The same reasons the Feds resist, the state officials resist. The laws to handle this are already on the books. All states have to do is enforce them. Instead, they play rhetorical games in order to fire up the voters, but at the end of the day, nothing will be done. We have a long history on this.
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OK that spin didn't work, lets backpedal and try again. Hey I didn't say Obama wasn't lying, I said that we don't know who was lying, we can't PROVE anything. Hey look over there, The states did it, well they should have, Hey look theres a dog running across the street. What do you mean that doesn't have anything to do with the topic? Hey what about this, what about that ? What? What?
 
cholla said:
OK that spin didn't work, lets backpedal and try again. Hey I didn't say Obama wasn't lying, I said that we don't know who was lying, we can't PROVE anything. Hey look over there, The states did it, well they should have, Hey look theres a dog running across the street. What do you mean that doesn't have anything to do with the topic? Hey what about this, what about that ? What? What?
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I'm concerned for you here and not sure what you're trying to say. James and I are discussing two different topics. I don't think he's confused, but your response seems confused. What exactly do you take issue with?
 
Now a National Review article dated June 25, 2010


Kyl tells us that the comments were “taken a bit out of context,” and that the “they” he was referring to was the Left, “the president’s base,” and not the administration. “I did not try to start a fight. This meeting happened a month ago and we were talking in the context of his political problems. He was talking about how they think that if we secure the border, you guys [Republicans] won’t have the incentive to work on comprehensive immigration reform.”

Kyl: Obama Did Not Consult on Border Funds - Robert Costa - The Corner on National Review Online
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Ahhh the ol' mythical 'they', kinda like 'some people say'.

First he says the president says 'we', then he backpedals to the ambiguous 'they'.

Who's lying? Kyl's the crawfish....:lol:
 
Boo Radley said:
I keep suggesting people not put much stock in talk that can't be supported. But the desire to believe too often trumps evidence.
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Well here is my two cents worth, I find it hard to believe that Kyl would just come out in public and lie knowing very well he would be put under a microscope. I bet Obama perhaps had eluded to what Kyle accused him of, or perhaps Kyl emblished a bit. One way or the other where there is smoke there is fire and I wouldn't be surprises if Obama said such a thing. That said I have no proof one way or the other but I watch Obama's actions and it seems to fall right in line to what Kyl claims he said.
 
Ockham said:
It's easy to figure out who's lying by asking, who benefits from the lie? Obama benefits as he doesn't want to be seen as negligent at securing the border. Kyl has nothing to gain by lying. Simple.
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Sure he does. He makes Obama look bad, that helps him out.
 
BWG said:
Now a National Review article dated June 25, 2010



Nice try but you take it out of context.


Kyl Puts Border Remarks in New Context - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

In the meeting with Tea Party members, the senator said he and the president were alone at the White House and – giving his audience a belated fly-on-the-wall moment – Mr.Kyl confided, “Here’s what the president said: ‘The problem is,’ he said, ‘if we secure the border, then you all won’t have any reason to support comprehensive immigration reforms.” Mr. Kyl, the second-ranking Republican in the Senate, continued, “In other words, they’re holding it hostage. They don’t want to secure the borders unless and until it is combined with comprehensive immigration reform.”

While the video has those remarks and more, on Friday the conservative National Review Online reported that Mr. Kyl said in an interview that he had been quoted out of context.

According to the magazine’s Web site:

Kyl tells us that the comments were “taken a bit out of context,” and that the “they” he was referring to was the left, “the president’s base,” and not the administration. “I did not try to start a fight. This meeting happened a month ago and we were talking in the context of his political problems. He was talking about how they think that if we secure the border, you guys [Republicans] won’t have the incentive to work on comprehensive immigration reform.”

After a week of debate in the blogosphere about who is telling the truth – Mr. Kyl or the White House – that ought to clear things up.
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deltabtry said:
Well here is my two cents worth, I find it hard to believe that Kyl would just come out in public and lie knowing very well he would be put under a microscope. I bet Obama perhaps had eluded to what Kyle accused him of, or perhaps Kyl emblished a bit. One way or the other where there is smoke there is fire and I wouldn't be surprises if Obama said such a thing. That said I have no proof one way or the other but I watch Obama's actions and it seems to fall right in line to what Kyl claims he said.
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What's the real risk? Nothing can be proven. And he can claim being picked on. And it's not like this isn't done by all sides. The best claim to make is one no one can DISPROVE. The faithful will always believe it.
 
ptif219 said:
BWG said:
Now a National Review article dated June 25, 2010



Nice try but you take it out of context.


Kyl Puts Border Remarks in New Context - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

In the meeting with Tea Party members, the senator said he and the president were alone at the White House and – giving his audience a belated fly-on-the-wall moment – Mr.Kyl confided, “Here’s what the president said: ‘The problem is,’ he said, ‘if we secure the border, then you all won’t have any reason to support comprehensive immigration reforms.” Mr. Kyl, the second-ranking Republican in the Senate, continued, “In other words, they’re holding it hostage. They don’t want to secure the borders unless and until it is combined with comprehensive immigration reform.”

While the video has those remarks and more, on Friday the conservative National Review Online reported that Mr. Kyl said in an interview that he had been quoted out of context.

According to the magazine’s Web site:

Kyl tells us that the comments were “taken a bit out of context,” and that the “they” he was referring to was the left, “the president’s base,” and not the administration. “I did not try to start a fight. This meeting happened a month ago and we were talking in the context of his political problems. He was talking about how they think that if we secure the border, you guys [Republicans] won’t have the incentive to work on comprehensive immigration reform.”

After a week of debate in the blogosphere about who is telling the truth – Mr. Kyl or the White House – that ought to clear things up.
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WTF? So he suggests that Obama said something, but then claims that - "Oh, not him. People who like him. His base."

Unless he said up front that he meant certain voters, then he's lying.

I bet I can find some crazy things some of Kyl's voters think and if I simply put on a website that that means Kyl thinks them, too - or worse, said them - I'd probably get sued.

But because he's a Republican in this day and age, he can lie away and then claim "context". I meant just "his base", not him personally.

Once again, the party that claims personal responsibility backs away from it when faced with it.
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