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Thread: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I noted in the earlier thread about Kyl that there was reason to doubt him. Only those who want it to be true accept his word unchallenged. None of us can know what was actually said there, but that's the point. When a politician says something he can't support, we should always doubt it.
    If Kyl is lying about Obama on border on border security and amnesty then what has Obama done to adequately secure the border?

    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If Kyl is lying about Obama on border on border security and amnesty then what has Obama done to adequately secure the border?
    Not the point James. I keep telling you neither party has done anything and I suspect neither will do anything, but none of that means any of them are telling the truth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not the point James.
    You accused Kyl of lying or at least hinting at it.Surely if that was true then there should be some evidence like Obama doing something contrary to what Kyl said.


    I keep telling you neither party has done anything and I suspect neither will do anything, but none of that means any of them are telling the truth.
    I am well aware that neither party is willing to do anything about at least on the federal level. It seems only on the local and state do the parties want to fix illegal immigration,perhaps that is because illegals are dealt with on the local and state level and local politicians live close to home.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Since amnesty has been at the heart of the Democrat position because they want the votes illegals will bring in since the vast majority would be democrats if they were handed citizenship
    Just like tax-breaks are a payout for republican voters and companies, right?

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Personally, I trust Kyl over Obama. I believe Obama is an ideologically driven monster who would absolutely capitalize upon an insecure border in order to enact damaging immigration reform. However, I doubt why he would tell Kyl his plan blatantly like that. Regardless, I do believe Obama isn't securing the border so that he can push for his immigration agenda. I think he's also capitalizing on the oil spill in order to make it into some political front against oil and energy independence.
    Oh, I have no doubt he would do it behind closed doors. When you tell people who they should or shouldn't listen to if they want to get things done with camera' running; behind closed doors and without a teleprompteur, I doubt this guy would hold back.

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You accused Kyl of lying or at least hinting at it.Surely if that was true then there should be some evidence like Obama doing something contrary to what Kyl said.



    I am well aware that neither party is willing to do anything about at least on the federal level. It seems only on the local and state do the parties want to fix illegal immigration,perhaps that is because illegals are dealt with on the local and state level and local politicians live close to home.
    James read carefully. I said we should not trust any of them, including Kyl and Obama. It is too easy to say **** that is false if there is no evidence. All we can say is we don't know what was said, and can't accept either version. And if you say you're going to accept anyone without support, you become someone who can easily be fooled.

    And no, I don't think there is really any will on the state level. The same reasons the Feds resist, the state officials resist. The laws to handle this are already on the books. All states have to do is enforce them. Instead, they play rhetorical games in order to fire up the voters, but at the end of the day, nothing will be done. We have a long history on this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that s false. Liars sometimes tell the turth, and honest men sometimes lie, we people often believe a lie. And Kyl does have something to gain, he musters public support. He has to hope no one questions him or asks that he prove his accusations.

    And here we go with the spin, Hey look, now we are NOT talking about Obama lying. It must not have happened. Never could have happened. Obama would not lie, it must be Kyl, look at all he has to gain. We are NOT talking about Obama. We are NOT talking about Obama. Kumbaya my lord Kumbaya,

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    James read carefully. I said we should not trust any of them, including Kyl and Obama. It is too easy to say **** that is false if there is no evidence. All we can say is we don't know what was said, and can't accept either version. And if you say you're going to accept anyone without support, you become someone who can easily be fooled.

    And no, I don't think there is really any will on the state level. The same reasons the Feds resist, the state officials resist. The laws to handle this are already on the books. All states have to do is enforce them. Instead, they play rhetorical games in order to fire up the voters, but at the end of the day, nothing will be done. We have a long history on this.
    OK that spin didn't work, lets backpedal and try again. Hey I didn't say Obama wasn't lying, I said that we don't know who was lying, we can't PROVE anything. Hey look over there, The states did it, well they should have, Hey look theres a dog running across the street. What do you mean that doesn't have anything to do with the topic? Hey what about this, what about that ? What? What?

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    OK that spin didn't work, lets backpedal and try again. Hey I didn't say Obama wasn't lying, I said that we don't know who was lying, we can't PROVE anything. Hey look over there, The states did it, well they should have, Hey look theres a dog running across the street. What do you mean that doesn't have anything to do with the topic? Hey what about this, what about that ? What? What?
    I'm concerned for you here and not sure what you're trying to say. James and I are discussing two different topics. I don't think he's confused, but your response seems confused. What exactly do you take issue with?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Who's Lying? White House Denies Kyl's Immigration Story

    Now a National Review article dated June 25, 2010


    Kyl tells us that the comments were “taken a bit out of context,” and that the “they” he was referring to was the Left, “the president’s base,” and not the administration. “I did not try to start a fight. This meeting happened a month ago and we were talking in the context of his political problems. He was talking about how they think that if we secure the border, you guys [Republicans] won’t have the incentive to work on comprehensive immigration reform.”

    Kyl: Obama Did Not Consult on Border Funds - Robert Costa - The Corner on National Review Online

    Ahhh the ol' mythical 'they', kinda like 'some people say'.

    First he says the president says 'we', then he backpedals to the ambiguous 'they'.

    Who's lying? Kyl's the crawfish....
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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