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Thread: The End of Men

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The difference is what their actions show, not their words. And those actions dont in a single way diminish their femininity...it ENHANCES it. Unless of course you define femininity as weak, annoying, I want equal rights but I dont want to have to tote a tool box or carry a weapon, dont want to crack a nail, dont make jokes I might perceive as sexist blah blah balh...
    My boyfriend and I re-roofed his house, and my mom died a little inside when I told her that. She was like, "He will never look at you the same way again."

    Hilarious, really. In my mom's world, I should stand on the ground and be frail, and coo admiringly while he puts on a new roof. **** that noise, I like learning to do things, and it felt good to know that I could put a new roof on my house if I had to.

  2. #172
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    Re: The End of Men

    Getting sort of back on topic...

    No, I hardly think this is "the end of men". For centuries the pendulum was tied way over on the male side of things; over the past century it has swung downward towards equilibrium... but if you've ever watched a pendulum they tend to swing back and forth for awhile before coming to rest. This is a fluctuation in favor of the female to some degree. That doesn't mean the future is all about women with men relegated to the status of pets; frankly that is silly.

    The future doesn't belong to a particular gender any more than a particular race; it belongs to those individuals to seize the opportunities that come their way.

    On to personal observations...

    I've had both male and female bosses over the course of two dozen years in the wonderful world of work: probably more female bosses than male. I've considered the virtues and vices of both and found that they do vary, but they vary more as individuals than strictly by gender.

    Still, there are some common features often found in the male boss, and the female boss. The following are generalities, you understand: there are always exceptions and individuals vary!

    Bossman: A self-confident bossman can be easy to work for, easy to talk to, and easy to get along with. Such a bossman has a notable lack of jealousy and fear of subordinates showing him up. However, a bossman who doubts himself is likely to compensate by acting like he's Donald Trump, J. Edgar Hoover, Tom Cruise and Chuck Norris all rolled into one. A bossman lacking self-confidence is likely to be abrasive, abusive, and excessively domineering. His criticism will be excessively harsh rather than constructive, he will put down and maybe even fire competent subordinates, frack with you just because he can, and otherwise generally be a pain in the anus.
    Good bossmen tend to be decisive but open to suggestions; communicate well but not let discussions go on past the point of productivity; maintain the right level of control over subordinates and operations without micromanaging; and are less inclined to negative "quirkiness" than many female bosses.

    Boss Lady: A good boss lady can be a treasure; if she is confident, capable and experienced in management, she will typically be easy to get along with if you do a good job, and is far more likely to be free with praise than even the best male boss. Female bosses are often more understanding about personal and family issues, and are more likely to make criticism constructive rather than punitively harsh.
    A female boss who lacks self-confidence or who is less than competent can be a problem, just as a boss-man with that fault is, but sometimes in different ways. Some symptoms include suddenly screaming at everyone for no apparent reason, then running off crying and locking her office door for an hour (or leaving and going home without explanation). Some female bosses have "queen bee syndrome" and tend to hate their female subordinates and equals, expressing jealousy and backbiting. Some are highly manipulative in office politics, in some cases downright machiavellian. Contrariwise some female bosses have a bug up their butt about men, and make a point of putting down or harassing all males under their authority.
    Female bosses are more likely to seek suggestions or advice from subordinates without feeling threatened by the admission, but often are also less decisive in time-critical situations where there is no opportunity to seek consensus.

    I've had bosses of either gender who sucked, and others who were great.

    On the whole though, I've liked more of my bossladies than bossmen. I'm not sure if I can even explain why, other than to say Hey, Goshin likes the womenfolks better than menfolks.

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  3. #173
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    My boyfriend and I re-roofed his house, and my mom died a little inside when I told her that. She was like, "He will never look at you the same way again."

    Hilarious, really. In my mom's world, I should stand on the ground and be frail, and coo admiringly while he puts on a new roof. **** that noise, I like learning to do things, and it felt good to know that I could put a new roof on my house if I had to.

    I prefer a woman who wants to DO things with me, than one who wants to sit nearby, watch, and make pleasant but insincere admiring noises while she repaints her nails.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I prefer a woman who wants to DO things with me, than one who wants to sit nearby, watch, and make pleasant but insincere admiring noises while she repaints her nails.
    I decided that I wouldn't really be happy with a man who wanted me to be a trophy. I'm just not good at sitting and looking pretty. I prefer to pitch in and get dirty.

  5. #175
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    My boyfriend and I re-roofed his house, and my mom died a little inside when I told her that. She was like, "He will never look at you the same way again."

    Hilarious, really. In my mom's world, I should stand on the ground and be frail, and coo admiringly while he puts on a new roof. **** that noise, I like learning to do things, and it felt good to know that I could put a new roof on my house if I had to.
    Im sure he wont...he will look at you and say...you know...when i saw you up there...sweating...bending over...hauling that plywood and roofing tiles...I swear...its all I could do to keep from...

    See...Im sorry...but thats SEXY...

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I decided that I wouldn't really be happy with a man who wanted me to be a trophy. I'm just not good at sitting and looking pretty. I prefer to pitch in and get dirty.
    I love dirty women.

  7. #177
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I prefer a woman who wants to DO things with me, than one who wants to sit nearby, watch, and make pleasant but insincere admiring noises while she repaints her nails.
    And that's where most people seem to be these days. . . I think the notions that "men should do ___ and women should do ___" are all archaic and rarely the norm, now. It's perfectly acceptable and even encouraged for everyone to deal with things 50/50 or something like that within a relationship.

    And Catz - it's true. He'll never look at you the same way again, or any woman for that matter, now that he knows he can be the one sitting around doing nothing while the woman in his life does all the work.
    I screwed myself being resourceful and 'do it all!' - Last year I wanted to buy a new dining room table (someone was selling it at a yardsale for $150 - SO CHEAP!) and my husband looked at what I wanted and said "You can make one CHEAPER than that and better looking, too." There goes me EVER being able to buy NEW furniture.

    See - be capable, resourceful and independent! But not too much.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Thats another thing. It is hardly pro womens rights, that we have had to learn to negotiate in a way that suits men, rather than in a way that is more natural for women. What would have been fair, is if work places had such culture of gender equality, that both types of negotiation are understood.

    Some say, to reduce this obstacle to gender equality, a price tag should be associated with each type of job, and that it is not up for negotiation.
    I don't know any "types" of negotiation. I just tell them what I'm willing to work for and they either match it, or they don't. It's perfectly natural. Many times, when they give me a price, I tell the other company bidding for me what the competing company has offered, so on and so forth. This is how I get the most pay I can at any given time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    One thing I've noticed is that guys in fields like law enforcement and the military often have the least traditional views in this regard, because they're used to working side by side with women in their field, and seeing women perform the same work. It's odd, but the more masculine the work is, the less insecure they seem to be about female equality.

    I've noticed this in the guys that I work with (and my boyfriend is military). it doesn't hold true for all, but if you think about it, the military was racially integrated far before the rest of private industry was.
    Indeed. My first attempt at working on the river was met with a wall of sexism since women were extremely the minority on the river. I was put through hell while they tried to make me quit. Which, of course, meant that I was NEVER going to. No matter what they did. LOL But that was ONE company. Next season, A new company, new attitude. The guys didn't cut us any slack - and it was hard physical labor. And most of us didn't expect anyone to cut us any slack. ( I will not say ALL because there were some pansy ass whiney princesses there on occasion later on - though they didn't last long) We did our jobs, there was no gender issue. I listened to the 'locker-room talk' and participated in it. They gave me ****, I gave them ****. One thing I will say, though, is that the guys were fiercely defensive of "their girls". But our divisions were not gender related, but rather company related. (22 different river companies, all of us claiming to be the best ) The "us against them" was one company against another.

    When I switched companies again like 7 years later, I was told by the river manager hiring me that his company was "a boy's club". I just smirked. "Pfffttt... bring it on." He said I'd fit in just fine.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    And you know what? That's done us more harm than it has good. It sets us apart from our peers. They can't be themselves around us. It creates an artificial and stilted environment that makes people less efficient and makes the workplace much more hostile for everyone involved.

    I LIKE sexual banter in the office.
    I had a sign on my wall in one office that said "Sexual harrassment will not be reported. But it will be graded."


    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Girl, you think that offends me? Heh. Look at my profile.
    Hell yeah. My sis and I rock out to this song.

    Last edited by rivrrat; 07-07-10 at 08:29 PM.

  10. #180
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    Re: The End of Men


    Some people don't realize that quite a few of us women have no interest in being a "classic" woman or a "June Cleaver" type. . . and thus trying to use what we do approve of in an insult begs more to a compliment and misses the mark.

    Someone, somewhere around here, tried to cut me down by saying I wasn't very "ladylike" . . . me sitting in my dirty combats clickin away at the keyboard was deeply amused by that one.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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