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Thread: The End of Men

  1. #111
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I know exactly what you mean. I'm glad things are steadily progressing, though, despite attempts by others to keep things the same.
    Maybe, people always resist change. It does involve taking risks, afterall. It seems that something has to reach crisis level to the point of being unbearable, before many will risk change.

  2. #112
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    I think, many have still not come to understand that people can be different, but equal. One type has to be better, as far as they can see. This is what I can never understand. Why in 2010 with all the education and information that is available, is it still like this.
    Sadly, I think the need to feel superior is a part of the ego and thus a part of human nature.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    I think, many have still not come to understand that people can be different, but equal. One type has to be better, as far as they can see. This is what I can never understand. Why in 2010 with all the education and information that is available, is it still like this.
    I don't understand it, either. My boyfriend and I have zero conflicts in this area. We're on the same team, no competition is necessary.


    One thing I've noticed is that guys in fields like law enforcement and the military often have the least traditional views in this regard, because they're used to working side by side with women in their field, and seeing women perform the same work. It's odd, but the more masculine the work is, the less insecure they seem to be about female equality.

    I've noticed this in the guys that I work with (and my boyfriend is military). it doesn't hold true for all, but if you think about it, the military was racially integrated far before the rest of private industry was.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-07-10 at 05:19 PM.

  4. #114
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think that my boyfriend is actually a lot more sensitive to women's issues, for the most part, than I am. I've spent so long in male-dominated fields that when i see cases where women are in the trenches, breaking new ground, and are dealing with men making rude comments, I'm like, "The women should just suck it up and grow some balls. How did they think it would be to work in NASCAR (or insert any other stereotypically male place of business)?"

    I've really never wanted anything but to be treated like one of the guys and given the same opportunities to show that I can earn my own place.
    ''I think that my boyfriend is actually a lot more sensitive to women's issues, for the most part, than I am.''
    Yeah, he has spent a lot of time learning about social political issues. It does take a women to see what is happening to other women, but he is interested, and does listen when women explain it. He has one friend who has taken womens feminist studies. When she found out just how much sexism there is, she couldnt stop being blazingly angry for a long time. He listened to it all. I had the same experience with the anger, as I found out more and more. Now, I tend to most of the time have a weary patience, and anger when I hear something particularly disgusting.

    ''...dealing with men making rude comments...''
    I became allergic to sexist comments long ago. I think, once you get allergic to them, you want to puke every time you hear one.

    I never cared about being treated like one of the boys, but I do and did want the freedom to live my life the way I want to live it.

  5. #115
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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't understand it, either. My boyfriend and I have zero conflicts in this area. We're on the same team, no competition is necessary.
    Maybe you found him, because you wouldnt put up with a man who is sexist. I know I wouldnt. I wouldnt be able to live with somebody like that, let alone love them.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Yeah, he has spent a lot of time learning about social political issues. It does take a women to see what is happening to other women, but he is interested, and does listen when women explain it. He has one friend who has taken womens feminist studies. When she found out just how much sexism there is, she couldnt stop being blazingly angry for a long time. He listened to it all. I had the same experience with the anger, as I found out more and more. Now, I tend to most of the time have a weary patience, and anger when I hear something particularly disgusting.
    I didn't read about it. I lived it. I was one of the first women in my field, and remain one of the few. i don't feel angry, I feel proud of my toughness. Part of the reason I do the job I do is so that my daughter won't have to justify her choices to anyone. I feel exceptionally good about being able to prove that women can do anything we want to do, professionally, and be just as successful at it as a man can.

    I became allergic to sexist comments long ago. I think, once you get allergic to them, you want to puke every time you hear one.
    If you work with a bunch of guys, you soon learn that they pick on everyone equally. Having a vagina isn't really that different from having red hair. In that environment, everyone catches some **** occasionally, you just have to learn to laugh at yourself, and then pick it up and throw it back. It's a male thing I think, it's about establishing the pecking order in the group. You just have to show them that your dick is every bit as big as theirs (even if it's invisible). I use that terminology, but what I mean is that my heart, my brain, my character is every bit as big as any guy I've ever worked with. Most of them figured that out pretty quickly.

    What I learned is that if you get offended at the little games, they win. You have to play the game better than they do. Then, after a while, you don't get anymore **** thrown at you. You win! They bow before your superior greatness (or at least, acknowledge that you are their equal, which is THE BEST).

    I never cared about being treated like one of the boys, but I do and did want the freedom to live my life the way I want to live it.
    Being treated like one of the boys means that my gender becomes removed from the equation. I'm evaluated on one thing, and one thing only: Can I do the job? That's all I've ever wanted, to just be judged on my merits.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-07-10 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Sadly, I think the need to feel superior is a part of the ego and thus a part of human nature.
    If it is part of human nature, then why are there some people who are not rascist or sexist? I think, it is about greed. Some are so greedy, that they will even brain wash themselves into thinking they are more deserving of a bigger share of the worlds resources, for any reason at all, be it skin colour, gender...

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Maybe you found him, because you wouldnt put up with a man who is sexist. I know I wouldnt. I wouldnt be able to live with somebody like that, let alone love them.
    I did put up with someone who is sexist for 12 years. I was quite unhappily married to a serial cheater who couched his misogyny in religious abuse. NEVER. AGAIN.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    If it is part of human nature, then why are there some people who are not rascist or sexist? I think, it is about greed. Some are so greedy, that they will even brain wash themselves into thinking they are more deserving of a bigger share of the worlds resources, for any reason at all, be it skin colour, gender...
    I actually think it is a matter of our innate personal tendencies. I'm a big fan of Meyers Briggs Theory. Our personality determines how we see the world. Those of us who are N's (intuitives) tend not to be so tribal. The S's, though, they're very black/white. Everyone who is not like them is a threat.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 07-07-10 at 05:33 PM.

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    Re: The End of Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I didn't read about it. I lived it. I was one of the first women in my field, and remain one of the few.
    There is lots of sexism about which is difficult to spot, because we are so used to it. For example, the way the media portray women and what it puts into societies subconsious unnoticed.

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