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Mohegan Sun Casino Owners Received $54 Million In Stimulus Money

Lord Tammerlain said:
Generally no, governments should not be in the banking industry.

Which does not change the fact that the government could very well profit from this deal
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So that "makes it right"? And how much can they write off as a tax break? I'll bet ya money most of that interest.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Generally no, governments should not be in the banking industry.

Which does not change the fact that the government could very well profit from this deal
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Oi!

I'll be nice and just say that the SCOTUS has ruled in several ways - all confirming that Congress has been granted supremacy over money issues (Via the Constitution) and can operate it's own *bank* - and thus can make loans however it sees fit.

That being said - I see routine lobbying going on with the Tribe - nothing new for Washington to give into and nothing new for people to be driving around in.

I agree with Glinda - this raises serious curiosity about the Tribe's actual ability to run a damn business.
Glinda said:
Beyond this, can anyone explain to me how this tribe is "unable to obtain other credit at reasonable rates and terms and are unable to finance the proposed project from their own resources?"
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MrVicchio said:
So that "makes it right"? And how much can they write off as a tax break? I'll bet ya money most of that interest.
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Doesnt make it wrong (as in corrupt) either.

This should not end up costing the taxpayer anything, meaning you are out nothing by from this
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Doesnt make it wrong (as in corrupt) either.

This should not end up costing the taxpayer anything, meaning you are out nothing by from this
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And the towns that need that money and get told there is none... Oh what the hell do you care? The Gov't did something as a political payoff, but a liberal did it, so you don't care, you'll find ways to rationalize the stench of wrong doing because it fits your political idealogy. At least Glinda for example, sees this and goes "Bull****s alert"
 
Glinda said:
My questions remain:

Why do the Mohegans get this loan, when they do not constitute even a tiny portion of the whole of their community/town?

Given their massive annual profits, why can't the Mohegans obtain credit at reasonable rates and terms through the usual channels? If no one will reasonably lend to them, it would seem to indicate a significant credit risk, wouldn't you think?

Given their massive annual profits, why don't the Mohegans finance projects with their own resources? There are surely thousands of other communities that need more stimulus help than this very wealthy Indian tribe.

Hinkey.
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many businesses can't get credit these days, or if they can, the rates are extremely high. banks don't really want to lend.
 
MrVicchio said:
And the towns that need that money and get told there is none... Oh what the hell do you care? The Gov't did something as a political payoff, but a liberal did it, so you don't care, you'll find ways to rationalize the stench of wrong doing because it fits your political idealogy. At least Glinda for example, sees this and goes "Bull****s alert"
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So your evidence of corruption is that this loan was made to a different town than the one you like?
Or are you still on the thing about interest rates that you don't have any evidence to support?
 
liblady said:
many businesses can't get credit these days, or if they can, the rates are extremely high. banks don't really want to lend.
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So that makes it okay to use money ostensibly set aside for small towns to fund a Casino's PR project at low interest rate?
 
Deuce said:
So your evidence of corruption is that this loan was made to a different town than the one you like?
Or are you still on the thing about interest rates that you don't have any evidence to support?
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You have absolutely no clue what's going on here do you?

The funds came from a fund set up to help communities of less then 20,000 to fund projects they couldn't otherwise get credit for.

As Glinda showed, this makes this loan highly suspect. Towns that need the money lose, because a highly profitable Casino got the money. Do you get it yet?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Perhaps the actual community in which they live represents a bad credit risk, which is why they didnt get a loan
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That's entirely possible. But if that's the case, there's still something fishy going on.

Stimulus money is earmarked for "communities of less than 20,000," not "groups of 1700 living in a community of less than 20,000," that can't get reasonable loans otherwise. If the actual community doesn't qualify because it's a bad credit risk, that should be the end of it, shouldn't it?

Lord Tammerlain said:
(if they applied for one that is)
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According to Dodd's office, the tribe did apply for the loan:
"Throughout his career, Sen. Dodd and the entire Connecticut delegation have worked tirelessly to secure jobs and economic prosperity for the state of Connecticut," a Dodd spokesman said in a statement to the Hartford Courant. "That is why he supported the economic recovery package, as well as the Mohegan Tribe's loan application, because it will create and preserve local jobs."
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The article mentions another interesting (and questionable) tidbit:
Of the $54 million to the Mohegan tribe, $31.5 million will be used to construct an educational center and $22.2 million to build a community center, according to the Agriculture Department.

The building will house the tribe's library, archives, tribal court, health and human services, Bunnell said.

"It has nothing to do with the casino," he said.
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So, this loan is going to a tribe (1700 people), not the larger community (approx. 19,000 people), and the money will pay to build something that's solely for the use and betterment of... the tribe. Which already has millions.

This whole thing stinks. I say Dodd and his pals have some 'splainin' to do.
 
MrVicchio said:
You have absolutely no clue what's going on here do you?

The funds came from a fund set up to help communities of less then 20,000 to fund projects they couldn't otherwise get credit for.

As Glinda showed, this makes this loan highly suspect. Towns that need the money lose, because a highly profitable Casino got the money. Do you get it yet?
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It wasn't given to a Casino.
 
liblady said:
the funds went to a casino?
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The funds went to the owners of the casino, the Mohegan tribe. Which isn't exactly poor or without options, because they own the casino.
 
Glinda said:
The funds went to the owners of the casino, the Mohegan tribe. Which isn't exactly poor or without options, because they own the casino.
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i'm not sure i see the bigger issue here. it's a loan, right? and it's as i thought, they are having difficulty with credit.

USDA officials said that part of their consideration in moving forward with the project was the tribe's continued challenge in obtaining credit because of the ongoing economic crisis.

The tribe's Lynn Malerba issued a press release when the money was awarded, saying that the construction of a community center and government building would provide important jobs to unemployed workers and help the tribe finish a project that was both shovel-ready and integral to the tribe's identity.
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Deuce said:
It wasn't given to a Casino.
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It was given to the tribe that owns the Casino to build a PR Project and to promote their own tribe.

Now, are you going to keep telling us this was a good use of money?
 
liblady said:
i'm not sure i see the bigger issue here. it's a loan, right? and it's as i thought, they are having difficulty with credit.
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I find it exceedingly difficult to accept that a group of 1700 people that takes in more than $50 million in profits annually is "having difficulty with credit."

USDA officials said that part of their consideration in moving forward with the project was the tribe's continued challenge in obtaining credit because of the ongoing economic crisis.
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That's a cop out, political excuse (and not a very good one). EVERY group of 1700 individuals, every community of less (or more) than 20,000, every freakin' STATE is challenged in obtaining credit because of the ongoing economic crisis. What makes this super wealthy tribe so special?

I still call bull****. Dodd and his cronies are up to something dirty, here.
 
Glinda said:
I find it exceedingly difficult to accept that a group of 1700 people that takes in more than $50 million in profits annually is "having difficulty with credit."



That's a cop out, political excuse (and not a very good one). EVERY group of 1700 individuals, every community of less (or more) than 20,000, every freakin' STATE is challenged in obtaining credit because of the ongoing economic crisis. What makes this super wealthy tribe so special?

I still call bull****. Dodd and his cronies are up to something dirty, here.[/QUOTE
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i still fail to see the issue.......it's a loan that will be paid back. furthermore, the state receives GREAT revenue from this tribe. it's a mutually beneficial arrangement, i think.
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MrVicchio said:
It was given to the tribe that owns the Casino to build a PR Project and to promote their own tribe.

Now, are you going to keep telling us this was a good use of money?
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I've never said that, so to "keep telling you" would be hard. You're doing that extrapolation thing again.
 
liblady said:
i still fail to see the issue.......it's a loan that will be paid back. furthermore, the state receives GREAT revenue from this tribe. it's a mutually beneficial arrangement, i think.
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Not when this small group of 1700 super-wealthy people are taking more than one third of the pie.

The $54 million loan represents more than one-third of the $167.8 million allocated by the USDA in the latest wave of stimulus funding for its rural development program. --ABC
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liblady said:
you have a point.
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It's kinda the point we've both been hounding. I more so the "corruption side" Glinda moreso the "Amount" side. Either way, it doesn't pass the smell test.
 
MrVicchio said:
It's kinda the point we've both been hounding. I more so the "corruption side" Glinda moreso the "Amount" side. Either way, it doesn't pass the smell test.
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well, i can't find any specific information on this, such as who else applied for the money, and how the decision was made.
 
More food for thought:
A listing of the federal funding for the project shows four separate loans amounting to nearly $32 million that will be used to construct a "Tribal Educational Center." A fifth loan, at more than $22 million, would be used for the "Tribal Community Center."
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Previously, I had read only that the money was going to build "an education center and a community center." There was some question as to who these buildings/services would benefit - the tribe or the actual community in which they live. Now we have verification that these buildings and the services they offer will benefit ONLY the tribe.


liblady said:
well, i can't find any specific information on this, such as who else applied for the money, and how the decision was made.
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This gives a bit more detail:

The money is part of a $167.8 million loan from the Agriculture Department rural development program for 145 investments in 37 states.
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If my math is correct, the tribe got a total of $74 million (they previously received $20 million) in stimulus loans from a larger pot of $167.8 million. That leaves $93.8 million to be shared among 144 other project in 36 other states, which works out to about $2.6 million per state and/or $680,000 per project.

I'm still confused how this one group of 1700 super-wealthy people was awarded more than one-third of the available funds, leaving 144 FAR more needy and deserving communities to fight over the crumbs that Dodd et al left behind.

Time for an investigation.
 
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Glinda said:
More food for thought:


Previously, I had read only that the money was going to build "an education center and a community center." There was some question as to who these buildings/services would benefit - the tribe or the actual community in which they live. Now we have verification that these buildings and the services they offer will benefit ONLY the tribe.




This gives a bit more detail:



If my math is correct, the tribe got a total of $74 million (they previously received $20 million) in stimulus loans from a larger pot of $167.8 million. That leaves $93.8 million to be shared among 144 other project in 36 other states, which works out to about $2.6 million per state and/or $680,000 per project.

I'm still confused how this one group of 1700 super-wealthy people was awarded more than one-third of the available funds, leaving 144 FAR more needy and deserving communities to fight over the crumbs that Dodd et al left behind.

Time for an investigation.
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They aren't "super-wealthy."
 
Deuce said:
They aren't "super-wealthy."
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Ah, well, everything's relative, isn't it? ;)

$53.6 million annual profit divided by 1700 people = $31,529.4118 per person, per year.

These are difficult times, Deuce. Everyone's hurting. People are damned lucky if they have (or can find) a job these days. How many people do you know it today's world that are handed $31,500 every year for free? If I received an unearned annual income of $31,500 (plus health care), I'd definitely consider myself "super wealthy" in this 12% unemployment/15 million-plus out of work/50 million without health coverage world, and sure as HELL wouldn't be asking the US taxpayer to help me out.
300px-Personal_income.png


The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $25,149 ($32,140 for those age 25 or above) in the year 2005. The overall median income for all 155 million persons over the age of 15 who worked with earnings in 2005 was $28,567.
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I'll betcha a buck that those numbers have dropped significantly in the last five years.

Of course, YMMV. Maybe $31,529 is a pittance to you. ;) I wager there are many tens of millions of Americans that would disagree with you, though.

But beyond this, I encourage you to find any other American "community" of 1700 people living within a 700-acre radius (the size of the Mohegan reservation) wherein every individual (man, woman, and child) among them receives $31,529 annually for FREE.

Further, I encourage you to find any other extremely localized "community" of 1700 people in America that own not one but TWO casinos (in different states, yet) that are as profitable as those owned by the Mohegans.

I don't think such things exist, but if you can find just one other 700-acre "community" of 1700 people where each and every individual receives full healthcare and a nice $31,529 check for free every year, I'd love to know about it!
 
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