• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Video: Seattle Cop Punches Woman In The Face For Jaywalking

spud_meister said:
you mean in between being pushed around by two women?
Click to expand...
There's a reason an officer's radio is at the shoulder.

If he really wanted to bring the woman in, handcuffs should have been involved sooner.
 
Hoplite said:
While I do think the officer would have been justified in use of appropriate force to subdue the woman, a punch to the face is NOT appropriate force. His life was not in danger, she was not armed, she was not striking his face, and he offered no verbal warnings (which you are required to do prior to the use of any force).

What he should have done is immediately call for another officer.

It was a disproportionate use of force where it was not necessary.
Click to expand...

if he thought his life was in danger he would've shot her not punched her. he did what he had to do. if you assault a cop you will get jacked up. i'm amazed he didn't pull out his club and really beat the crap out of her.
 
somepeoplesay said:
I was raised to never hit a woman, and she wasn't threatening his life. He could have just pushed her down?
Click to expand...

Please don't do that. . . don't pull the "you should never hit a wooooman." . . . If these were 3 men would your reaction - or anyone's reaction - be different?

They were both fighting him - one was resisting arrest and the other was helping her out.
Was he right to hit? No - because she actually didn't hit him. . . minor overreaction, it's actually understandable in this situation.

But the fact that she has boobs and a **** is no reason for any kind of differential treatment no matter how you were raised. My daughter is 6 and I'll be damned if I let her believe that she should be treated *better* than someone else purely based on her gender.

If these two women didn't want to be in a fight with an officer they should have conducted their selves different and still treated him with respect - not resisting an arrest (even if they didn't actually DO anything worth being arrested over) is definitely one way to avoid a confrontation like this - but did they? I wish someone had the entire incident on film to make a more balanced call on this.
 
Last edited:
Hoplite said:
There's a reason an officer's radio is at the shoulder.

If he really wanted to bring the woman in, handcuffs should have been involved sooner.
Click to expand...

he was trying to cuff her. she was fighting with him. did you watch the video or not?
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
I agree. But the people weren't keeping their cool and they were attacking someone. If they attacked someone that person has a RIGHT not only legally but MORALLY to defend themselves. At the end of the day cops are people and they have to subscribe to the law that we all follow. However, given the passivity of the American public most cops can behave whichever way they want to and get away with committing traffic violations that those very same cops would prosecute a civilian car for doing.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, cops and other emergency personnel are not actually committing traffic violations because they're *allowed* to do what they do. When I drove an ambulance, I could drive over medians, into oncoming traffic lanes, go through red-light intersections, drive in between traffic lanes, make u-turns any damn where I wanted to, speed, etc, etc. As long as I did it without putting people in jeopardy, of course. What I wasn't allowed to do was pass people on the right.

Anywho, my point is, what they're doing most likely isn't a traffic violation for them.
 
boblzer0 said:
if he thought his life was in danger he would've shot her not punched her. he did what he had to do. if you assault a cop you will get jacked up. i'm amazed he didn't pull out his club and really beat the crap out of her.
Click to expand...
Cops are not SUPPOSED to punch angry people in the face, cops are not thugs nor are they supposed to act like thugs. There was no clear need to strike her in the face and again, he issued no verbal warnings which is EXTREMELY important and something any cop should know to do.

boblzer0 said:
he was trying to cuff her. she was fighting with him. did you watch the video or not?
Click to expand...
She was struggling, but I saw no attempt made to cuff the woman in black before the officer struck the woman in pink
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Please don't do that. . . don't pull the "you should never hit a wooooman." . . . If these were 3 men would your reaction - or anyone's reaction - be different?

They were both fighting him - one was resisting arrest and the other was helping her out.
Was he right to hit? No - because she actually didn't hit him. . . minor overreaction, it's actually understandable in this situation.

But the fact that she has boobs and a **** is no reason for any kind of differential treatment no matter how you were raised. My daughter is 6 and I'll be damned if I let her believe that she should be treated *better* than someone else purely based on her gender.

If these two women didn't want to be in a fight with an officer they should have conducted their selves different and still treated him with respect - not resisting an arrest (even if they didn't actually DO anything worth being arrested over) is definitely one way to avoid a confrontation like this - but did they? I wish someone had the entire incident on film to make a more balanced call on this.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. As a woman, it's easy to find the whole "never hit a woman" bull**** insulting, at best.
 
rivrrat said:
Well, to be fair, cops and other emergency personnel are not actually committing traffic violations because they're *allowed* to do what they do. When I drove an ambulance, I could drive over medians, into oncoming traffic lanes, go through red-light intersections, drive in between traffic lanes, make u-turns any damn where I wanted to, speed, etc, etc. As long as I did it without putting people in jeopardy, of course. What I wasn't allowed to do was pass people on the right.

Anywho, my point is, what they're doing most likely isn't a traffic violation for them.
Click to expand...
it should be I cannot stand the idea that all a police officer has to do is turn on his emergency lights to pass a red light when there is no emergency.
 
rivrrat said:
My thoughts exactly. As a woman, it's easy to find the whole "never hit a woman" bull**** insulting, at best.
Click to expand...

Yeah - what gives?
It's always men perpetuating the unfairness, there, always - I've never heard a woman say things like that . .. doesn't mean they don't do it - I just haven't seen it, but it comes from men a lot.

Hmm - if this situation was gender-reversed what would everyone's reactions be? If it was a female cop and two males amid the confrontation?
i think a lot of people would support a female cop.
 
Hoplite said:
Cops are not SUPPOSED to punch angry people in the face, cops are not thugs nor are they supposed to act like thugs. There was no clear need to strike her in the face and again, he issued no verbal warnings which is EXTREMELY important and something any cop should know to do.

She was struggling, but I saw no attempt made to cuff the woman in black before the officer struck the woman in pink
Click to expand...

he was trying to get her in position to cuff her the entire time.
 
boblzer0 said:
he was trying to get her in position to cuff her the entire time.
Click to expand...
Then he needs to be re-trained on handcuffing because what he seemed to be trying to didnt appear to be doing anything except grabbing her hands and holding them, not cuffing her.
 
Hoplite said:
Cops are not SUPPOSED to punch angry people in the face, cops are not thugs nor are they supposed to act like thugs. There was no clear need to strike her in the face and again, he issued no verbal warnings which is EXTREMELY important and something any cop should know to do.
Click to expand...

Imagine this scene:

A lone cop is standing in the middle of a group of people watching him wrestle with a person, trying to put handcuffs on them. I run in from the side and start pushing the cop.

What do you think will happen to me?

a) Verbal warning to please back up as I am not being polite and am interfering inappropriately
b) Punch to the face
c) Chili con facey
d) Don't taze me bro
e) Bullet in sphincter

If I got out of there with a or b, the next thing I would do is buy a ****load of scratchoffs cause I'd be the luckiest man on earth.
 
Hoplite said:
Then he needs to be re-trained on handcuffing because what he seemed to be trying to didnt appear to be doing anything except grabbing her hands and holding them, not cuffing her.
Click to expand...

it makes it more difficult when that person is resisting and when someone else comes in and grabs you. when you resist arrest you get your ass kicked plain and simple. i couldn't imagine not complying with an officers instructions. i guess maybe that's because i don't like being in jail.
 
RightinNYC said:
Imagine this scene:

A lone cop is standing in the middle of a group of people watching him wrestle with a person, trying to put handcuffs on them. I run in from the side and start pushing the cop.

What do you think will happen to me?

a) Verbal warning to please back up as I am not being polite and am interfering inappropriately
b) Punch to the face
c) Chili con facey
d) Don't taze me bro
e) Bullet in sphincter

If I got out of there with a or b, the next thing I would do is buy a ****load of scratchoffs cause I'd be the luckiest man on earth.
Click to expand...

billy club to the skull most likely
 
RightinNYC said:
Imagine this scene:

A lone cop is standing in the middle of a group of people watching him wrestle with a person, trying to put handcuffs on them. I run in from the side and start pushing the cop.

What do you think will happen to me?

a) Verbal warning to please back up as I am not being polite and am interfering inappropriately
b) Punch to the face
c) Chili con facey
d) Don't taze me bro
e) Bullet in sphincter

If I got out of there with a or b, the next thing I would do is buy a ****load of scratchoffs cause I'd be the luckiest man on earth.
Click to expand...

:rofl

d! d! d! Unless you have a heart defect!
 
Hoplite said:
Cops are not SUPPOSED to punch angry people in the face, cops are not thugs nor are they supposed to act like thugs. There was no clear need to strike her in the face and again, he issued no verbal warnings which is EXTREMELY important and something any cop should know to do.

She was struggling, but I saw no attempt made to cuff the woman in black before the officer struck the woman in pink
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. Cops ARE SUPPOSED to punch. It is an accepted and recommended use of force in this situation. It is taught in the academy from the news report I watched.
 
RightinNYC said:
Imagine this scene:

A lone cop is standing in the middle of a group of people watching him wrestle with a person, trying to put handcuffs on them. I run in from the side and start pushing the cop.

What do you think will happen to me?

a) Verbal warning to please back up as I am not being polite and am interfering inappropriately
b) Punch to the face
c) Chili con facey
d) Don't taze me bro
e) Bullet in sphincter

If I got out of there with a or b, the next thing I would do is buy a ****load of scratchoffs cause I'd be the luckiest man on earth.
Click to expand...
Again, the officer is required to give verbal warnings in this case. If the officer felt the application of force was necessary, he had the option of deploying pepper spray which is specifically designed for a situation like this.
 
boblzer0 said:
i guess maybe that's because i don't like being in jail.
Click to expand...

It appears that the other people involved in the incident don't share the sentiment:

On the video, Officer Ian P. Walsh is seen punching the girl in the face after she tries to intervene in the arrest of a 19-year-old friend near Franklin High School on Monday afternoon. Police arrested the girl, Angel L. Rosenthal, and her friend, Marilyn Ellen Levias, both of whom have criminal records.

...

Rosenthal was charged in November with second-degree robbery. According to prosecutors, she punched a 15-year-old boy in the face while she and a group of youths were on their way to a rave in South Seattle last Aug. 28. The boy told police that his cellphone and $20 were stolen in the incident. A 14-year-old boy told police that he was punched in the head and his hat was stolen. Authorities say the case was dismissed when the boys refused to testify.

In April 2008, Rosenthal was charged with third-degree theft after she allegedly stole a minivan in Tukwila, prosecutors said. Kent police said she used a screwdriver to break the ignition and start the vehicle. The charge was later amended to theft of a motor vehicle. Rosenthal was given a deferred disposition — charges would be dropped if she stayed out of trouble — because it was a first-time offense, said Ian Goodhew, deputy chief of staff for Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg.

Levias was charged in February 2009 with third-degree assault after she allegedly pushed a King County sheriff's deputy down. According to charging documents, on Feb. 3, 2009, deputies were called to the Ruth Dykeman Children's Center, a Burien center for troubled girls, in response to a report that Levias was being abusive toward staff. When Levias was confronted by Deputy Amy Zarelli, she pushed the female deputy, causing her to fall, charging papers said. Levias was given a deferred disposition because it was a first-time offense, Goodhew said.
Click to expand...

Local News | Seattle police to review tactics, officer's conduct after videotaped punch | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Hoplite said:
Again, the officer is required to give verbal warnings in this case. If the officer felt the application of force was necessary, he had the option of deploying pepper spray which is specifically designed for a situation like this.
Click to expand...

what warning "stop fighting me or i'm going to fight back"? i think it's common sense. if not this bitch just got learned.
 
Hoplite said:
Again, the officer is required to give verbal warnings in this case. If the officer felt the application of force was necessary, he had the option of deploying pepper spray which is specifically designed for a situation like this.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you're wrong, but what are you basing this on? To the best of my knowledge, Seattle PD has said that they believe the guy complied with all rules.
 
RightinNYC said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, but what are you basing this on? To the best of my knowledge, Seattle PD has said that they believe the guy complied with all rules.
Click to expand...
I dont know how the SPD operates, but I am familiar with the LAPD and their MO is to issue a verbal warning or command to someone resisting arrest or pushing an officer but isnt directly endangering the officer's life. If the person persists, a push is acceptable to dislodge someone but beyond that, deployment of pepper spray is usually the next step.

Again, I dont know the specific MO of the SPD, but I know that physically punching someone who is not presenting anything more than a nuisance or at least not directly threatening the life of the officer or bystanders is a no-go for almost ANY police department in the US.

In this case, the officer appears to have lost his temper and struck someone in anger, which is not acceptable for a police officer.
 
Hoplite said:
I dont know how the SPD operates, but I am familiar with the LAPD and their MO is to issue a verbal warning or command to someone resisting arrest or pushing an officer but isnt directly endangering the officer's life. If the person persists, a push is acceptable to dislodge someone but beyond that, deployment of pepper spray is usually the next step.

Again, I dont know the specific MO of the SPD, but I know that physically punching someone who is not presenting anything more than a nuisance or at least not directly threatening the life of the officer or bystanders is a no-go for almost ANY police department in the US.

In this case, the officer appears to have lost his temper and struck someone in anger, which is not acceptable for a police officer.
Click to expand...

If someone just walked up to an officer and pushed them, it might be reasonable to expect the officer to give a warning. When the officer is already involved in a scuffle with one person and then another joins in the fray, I would be surprised if any police department would require the officer to hand out verbal warnings before using physical force.
 
Hoplite said:
I dont know how the SPD operates, but I am familiar with the LAPD and their MO is to issue a verbal warning or command to someone resisting arrest or pushing an officer but isnt directly endangering the officer's life. If the person persists, a push is acceptable to dislodge someone but beyond that, deployment of pepper spray is usually the next step.

Again, I dont know the specific MO of the SPD, but I know that physically punching someone who is not presenting anything more than a nuisance or at least not directly threatening the life of the officer or bystanders is a no-go for almost ANY police department in the US.

In this case, the officer appears to have lost his temper and struck someone in anger, which is not acceptable for a police officer.
Click to expand...

it's funny because after he jacked her in the grill she got out of his way and he was able to finish the job at hand. seemed pretty effective if you ask me. not to mention the punches are free and pepper spray costs money. looking out for the tax dollars.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom