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Thread: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read more: h

  1. #11
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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    What you don't realize is that society benefits collectively when society provides programs such as public transportation to magnet schools.
    At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    The better every single kid gets educated the more likely our kids will grow up to be successes, which means they'll be less likely to be an economic burden and/or pursue criminal careers. So you can either pay for the lives of those kids through public transportation or you can pay for it through welfare or you can pay for it through the costs to incarcerate those who are getting educated now. But any way you want it, society as a collective pays for it.

    This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.




    This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
    The cost of providing a public education $15k
    The cost of busing a child to school $(some number of hundreds of dollars)
    The cost of giving said child a free metrocard $(some number of hundreds of dollars, probably cheaper than paying to bus the child)

    The cost of giving free metrocards to kids who actually need them is minuscule next to the cost of education itself or the amount that would be spent to bus them.

    Or do you also think that there shouldn't be buses to drive kids to school? Everyone should just walk, no matter how far it is, and if a kid lives 3 miles away its his parents fault?
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 06-12-10 at 06:46 PM.
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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The cost of providing a public education $15k
    The cost of busing a child to school $(some number of hundreds of dollars)
    The cost of giving said child a free metrocard $(some number of hundreds of dollars, probably cheaper than paying to bus the child)

    The cost of giving free metrocards to kids who actually need them is minuscule next to the cost of education itself or the amount that would be spent to bus them.

    Or do you also think that there shouldn't be buses to drive kids to school? Everyone should just walk, no matter how far it is, and if a kid lives 3 miles away its his parents fault?
    Wait, it costs too much to bus them, and they cannot afford the Metro Cards.

    I'm not seeing a winning solution here. Well, aside spending MORE money.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Wait, it costs too much to bus them, and they cannot afford the Metro Cards.

    I'm not seeing a winning solution here. Well, aside spending MORE money.
    So you're saying that we shouldn't provide any transportation at all? I should have walked the 4 miles to the only public school within 30 miles of my house when I was growing up?

    If school districts around the country provide kids with bus service in order to make it to school, I don't understand why NYC shouldn't provide metrocards for kids in the same situation. It's probably cheaper than anything else.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So you're saying that we shouldn't provide any transportation at all? I should have walked the 4 miles to the only public school within 30 miles of my house when I was growing up?

    If school districts around the country provide kids with bus service in order to make it to school, I don't understand why NYC shouldn't provide metrocards for kids in the same situation. It's probably cheaper than anything else.
    Probably cheaper.

    I was under, and correct me if I am wrong here, but the issue was Magnet School Students not getting metro cards. Now if it's ALL KIDS, that's diff. Transportation to School is part of the deal, hell did you read me old "Abolish the Department of Education" thread? Even I am not against provided transportation.

    HOWEVER, if you live in X and there are schools near you but you want to attend a different school, that's on YOU, not the city.

    If I misunderstood the issue... oops. My mistake.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.
    My guess is that the answer to this relative question depends on one's political ideology. There is no definitive quantitative answer to this. Purely relative to one's beliefs.
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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    At the cost of sounding cold hearted... not when that program costs more then society can afford.
    Then lets cut things like our military spending, the war on drugs, and other government programs and instead invest in our children's futures.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    This is pure speculation on your part, and you have very little evidence to back it up.
    http://www.ceanational.org/PDFs/EdReducesCrime.pdf < PDF document

    The Education-Crime Connection

    Website estimates education's effect on health, crime, income - USATODAY.com

    Very little evidence, huh?

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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Probably cheaper.

    I was under, and correct me if I am wrong here, but the issue was Magnet School Students not getting metro cards. Now if it's ALL KIDS, that's diff. Transportation to School is part of the deal, hell did you read me old "Abolish the Department of Education" thread? Even I am not against provided transportation.

    HOWEVER, if you live in X and there are schools near you but you want to attend a different school, that's on YOU, not the city.

    If I misunderstood the issue... oops. My mistake.
    No worries.

    NYC normally provides all kids with metrocards. I might actually be more to the "right" on you than this, as I don't think it needs to do so for kids who go to schools near their homes, much like my school only provided bus service for kids who lived more than 1/2 mile from school.

    The cases where I think that it is necessary for the city to provide the kids with transportation is when the kid is attending a school that's not walking distance from their homes. Most frequently, this happens when the kid does very well on the admittance tests and gets accepted to one of the city's elite public schools. I know kids who ride the subway 2 hours each way, every day, just so that they can get out of their ****ty neighborhood in the Rockaways or Jamaica and attend Stuyvesant or Bronx Science. For kids like that, I've got no problem with allowing them to hitch rides on the trains for free, especially when there's no upfront cost to the city like there would be with busing them.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No worries.

    NYC normally provides all kids with metrocards. I might actually be more to the "right" on you than this, as I don't think it needs to do so for kids who go to schools near their homes, much like my school only provided bus service for kids who lived more than 1/2 mile from school.

    The cases where I think that it is necessary for the city to provide the kids with transportation is when the kid is attending a school that's not walking distance from their homes. Most frequently, this happens when the kid does very well on the admittance tests and gets accepted to one of the city's elite public schools. I know kids who ride the subway 2 hours each way, every day, just so that they can get out of their ****ty neighborhood in the Rockaways or Jamaica and attend Stuyvesant or Bronx Science. For kids like that, I've got no problem with allowing them to hitch rides on the trains for free, especially when there's no upfront cost to the city like there would be with busing them.
    Well, I'm a progressive when it comes to such issues, so here's what I think.

    I think NYC should cut the salaries of all it's educators and educational administrators by 5%-10% a year, and possibly reduce many other public school programs. That money then goes to a fund to pay kids to go to school. Children who earn better grades will be able to earn more money. Those who are not academically inclined should get youth vocational training instead. For those who rely on metrocards to get to their school, the money can be taken out from their "student salary."

    That's what I would try to propose.

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    Re: A for effort! Students march on City Hall to protest loss of MetroCards Read mor

    If my children can ride a bus for free to attend school then so should all other students. I fail to see how something that is standard practice across the entire US should become the financial burden of parents in a few unfortunate locations. There seems to be no logic in that.

    it's basically telling people "because you live ___ you get shafted and your child's education isn't as important"

    They already shafted the traditional and common public-bus transportation by expecting kids to ride the metro or city bus to school. So now they're trimming down the options to nil.
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