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Social Security Payouts Are Already Crippling The Government This Year

UtahBill said:
Nolaman, I define rich by what material things I don't need, and what family things I have.

The primary reason we have 2 houses is because we waited too long to put the AZ house on the market, so now we can't sell it, for what we want out of it. Now we have decided to keep it as our winter home.
I feel rich with about $800K in property and IRA assets, and a bit over $100K in annual retirement income that we can't lose. Total debt is $40K. Cars are old, a 2000 Impala, 2002 Silverado, and a 1980 Diplomat coupe.
Retirement is great. You don't have to fear losing a job if you don't need one...
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I will never knock you for having more than one house, honestly we have more than one as well. I am just of the opinion that the whole concept that the "rich can foot the bill" for basically everything this country wants to enact is ridiculous.

For all who are reading, forget about SS. Prepare for your retirement as tho it won't be there....
Complaining about taxes is time wasted. Put your time to better use. Get more education, seek better employment. Pay down the mortgage, which should be your ONLY debt. Doesn't hurt to marry a smart person and get him/her to agree to a long term plan that leads to financial security...
Guys, marry a teacher. They can hit the work force as soon as the youngest child starts first grade. AND, if you don't do it right the first time, she makes you do it over...:2razz:
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I am torn on this, I am preparing as if I will never get it, but at the same time I think if I pay into it my whole life, I ought to get something back.
 
NolaMan said:
I will never knock you for having more than one house, honestly we have more than one as well. I am just of the opinion that the whole concept that the "rich can foot the bill" for basically everything this country wants to enact is ridiculous.



I am torn on this, I am preparing as if I will never get it, but at the same time I think if I pay into it my whole life, I ought to get something back.
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The rich will never be able to foot the whole bill, true, but they can do more without suffering at all. The rest of us may have to learn a new American Dream, one that is based more on quality of life instead of quantity of stuff....
They say we spend most of our lives accumulating stuff, and the latter years of our lives getting rid of it....maybe we can learn to live on less up front.
The only reason we built such a big house in Utah is so we could sell it to a large family someday. You know what I mean, to a Mormon or Catholic family.:2razz:

Most of our assets will go to educating the grandkids. It is the least we can do for being Republicans, the party that borrows against our grandchildren's futures...
 
Social Security Payouts Are Already Crippling The Government This Year
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And, PBO wants to cut off the single biggest source of non-tax revenue that the Federal government has? Can anyone explain how that make sense?

Who are the eggheads that voted for these mother****ers?
 
UtahBill said:
The rich will never be able to foot the whole bill, true, but they can do more without suffering at all. The rest of us may have to learn a new American Dream, one that is based more on quality of life instead of quantity of stuff....
They say we spend most of our lives accumulating stuff, and the latter years of our lives getting rid of it....maybe we can learn to live on less up front.
The only reason we built such a big house in Utah is so we could sell it to a large family someday. You know what I mean, to a Mormon or Catholic family.:2razz:
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I think that it is a little ridiculous to argue that since the rich won't be hurt as much by a higher tax rate that it somehow means we ought to tax them higher. It is still money that they worked hard to earn, the same as someone out making minimum wage.

Most of our assets will go to educating the grandkids. It is the least we can do for being Republicans, the party that borrows against our grandchildren's futures...
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It seems both parties lately are hell bent on spending us into oblivion.
 
UtahBill said:
The rich will never be able to foot the whole bill, true, but they can do more without suffering at all. The rest of us may have to learn a new American Dream, one that is based more on quality of life instead of quantity of stuff....
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FWIW, there are those who might say the same while referring to households such as yours. The only difference between that person and you is that you set the threshold for "rich" at some point higher than they do.
 
RightinNYC said:
FWIW, there are those who might say the same while referring to households such as yours. The only difference between that person and you is that you set the threshold for "rich" at some point higher than they do.
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Yes, and they have made comments, like "man you sure are lucky" from a guy who couldn't keep a job because he made similar stupid statements at work. Another, a teacher, said he couldn't afford to live well on his salary, so I told him to apply at the INEL site where I worked. His response, "but I would have to ride a bus to and from work and that's an extra 2 hours a day out of my life".
I know poor people who will stay poor because they are not smart, related to quite a few of them, but people who won't sacrifice a little time now for a better future, that is just plain self defeating.
I can't feel sorry for them..
 
NolaMan said:
I think that it is a little ridiculous to argue that since the rich won't be hurt as much by a higher tax rate that it somehow means we ought to tax them higher. It is still money that they worked hard to earn, the same as someone out making minimum wage.



It seems both parties lately are hell bent on spending us into oblivion.
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Agree on the "both parties" comment....but not so much the "rich". When I say rich, I am mostly referring to the mullti millionaires who never broke a sweat at "work" managing the assets of others.
The easiest job ever has to be finanical advisor, they get an annual percentage of your money even when they lose money for you.
I didn't vote for Obama last time, but if he goes after the criminal element on Wall Street like we should, I will vote for him next time. I believe that Bernie Madoff is just the tip of a very dirty iceberg....
 
UtahBill said:
Agree on the "both parties" comment....but not so much the "rich". When I say rich, I am mostly referring to the mullti millionaires who never broke a sweat at "work" managing the assets of others.
The easiest job ever has to be finanical advisor, they get an annual percentage of your money even when they lose money for you.
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Yea, but they also lose a ton of their clients when they lose money for you, putting them out of a job.

I didn't vote for Obama last time, but if he goes after the criminal element on Wall Street like we should, I will vote for him next time. I believe that Bernie Madoff is just the tip of a very dirty iceberg....
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Bernie Madoff is not the typical "financial advisor."
 
NolaMan said:
I think that it is a little ridiculous to argue that since the rich won't be hurt as much by a higher tax rate that it somehow means we ought to tax them higher. It is still money that they worked hard to earn, the same as someone out making minimum wage.
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What bothers me most by what you just said there is how so few people actually understand or appreciate how money flows through a society and/or economy. (I'm not directing this at you,... you just opened an old wound)

I want to shake them and ask them "THINK" where do rich people get their money?

Answer; (I usually have to answer for them) They get it from YOU and ME.

They make money off your labor if you work for them.

They make money off their products by buying low and marking them up and selling them for more than they paid. etc.

Guess who buys those products. YOU do and I do.

So, if you tax a rich guy,... guess where the money HAS to come from.

YOU.

And ME.

The same place the government gets all ITS money from.

"Do people really think rich people get rich by taking it in the shorts every time the ****ing government needs more money?"

Arrrrrggggghhhhh!
 
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UtahBill said:
Yes, and they have made comments, like "man you sure are lucky" from a guy who couldn't keep a job because he made similar stupid statements at work. Another, a teacher, said he couldn't afford to live well on his salary, so I told him to apply at the INEL site where I worked. His response, "but I would have to ride a bus to and from work and that's an extra 2 hours a day out of my life".
I know poor people who will stay poor because they are not smart, related to quite a few of them, but people who won't sacrifice a little time now for a better future, that is just plain self defeating.
I can't feel sorry for them..
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My point was that there are people who might look at you and your situation and say that you haven't paid your fair share in taxes, much like you look at others and say the same thing. I presume that you would think the people criticizing you are wrong, so what makes your criticism more right?

Everyone agrees that the "rich" need to pay more in taxes, the problem is that everyone defines "rich" as someone making more than themselves.

UtahBill said:
Agree on the "both parties" comment....but not so much the "rich". When I say rich, I am mostly referring to the mullti millionaires who never broke a sweat at "work" managing the assets of others.
The easiest job ever has to be finanical advisor, they get an annual percentage of your money even when they lose money for you.
I didn't vote for Obama last time, but if he goes after the criminal element on Wall Street like we should, I will vote for him next time. I believe that Bernie Madoff is just the tip of a very dirty iceberg....
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Where are you getting the idea that there are all these "financial advisors" out there making millions without doing any work? I know a dozen or so people on wall street. They were all toward the top of their class at good colleges, work 60-80 hour weeks, and earn between $65k and $120k, while living in NYC

If there were really jobs out there that paid millions for no work, don't you think more people would be doing them? Hell, I know I would.

Wall street has plenty of problems, but the idea that it's mostly criminals is just ridiculous.
 
Chuz Life said:
What bothers me most by what you just said there is how so few people actually understand or appreciate how money flows through a society and/or economy. (I'm not directing this at you,... you just opened an old wound)

I want to shake them and ask them "THINK" where do rich people get their money?

Answer; (I usually have to answer for them) They get it from YOU and ME.

They make money off your labor if you work for them.

They make money off their products by buying low and marking them up and selling them for more than they paid. etc.

So, if you tax a rich guy,... guess where the money HAS to come from.

YOU.

And ME.

The same place the government gets all ITS money from.

"Do people really think rich people get rich by taking it in the shorts every time the ****ing government needs more money?"

Arrrrrggggghhhhh!
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Agreed, and following that same logic, if the average worker is getting their money from a "rich" person by working for them, when taxes on the "rich" go up, that leaves less money to come down the pipe to pay your wages.
 
NolaMan said:
Yea, but they also lose a ton of their clients when they lose money for you, putting them out of a job.



Bernie Madoff is not the typical "financial advisor."
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What he did was no secret to a lot of people, but the culture on Wall Street is such that a lot of people "got in on it" rather than go to the Feds. And the few who did go to the Feds? They were ignored. We have to believe one of 2 things here, that the govt is incredibly incompetent, or blatantly corrupt. Wait, maybe both....
As for losing their jobs? Hey, if I could get away with ripping off my clients to the tune of millions of dollars, plus get a golden parachute when I get fired, I would be begging to be fired....
 
NolaMan said:
Agreed, and following that same logic, if the average worker is getting their money from a "rich" person by working for them, when taxes on the "rich" go up, that leaves less money to come down the pipe to pay your wages.
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You got it!
 
UtahBill said:
What he did was no secret to a lot of people, but the culture on Wall Street is such that a lot of people "got in on it" rather than go to the Feds. And the few who did go to the Feds? They were ignored. We have to believe one of 2 things here, that the govt is incredibly incompetent, or blatantly corrupt. Wait, maybe both....
As for losing their jobs? Hey, if I could get away with ripping off my clients to the tune of millions of dollars, plus get a golden parachute when I get fired, I would be begging to be fired....
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I mean, they don't make millions doing it, except in those very rare circumstances.

I have gone through a number of financial advisors myself, fired the latest after the BP rig explosion. I hold a lot of Anadarko stock (they own a 25% operating interest in that rig) and I was following it pretty closely the days after the explosion, sold a bit myself, then called my advisor to see if he agreed with my research. He was unaware that Anadarko even had this stake in the rig, so I moved on in a hurry from him.

I certainly did not pay him "millions" however.
 
RightinNYC said:
My point was that there are people who might look at you and your situation and say that you haven't paid your fair share in taxes, much like you look at others and say the same thing. I presume that you would think the people criticizing you are wrong, so what makes your criticism more right?

Everyone agrees that the "rich" need to pay more in taxes, the problem is that everyone defines "rich" as someone making more than themselves.



Where are you getting the idea that there are all these "financial advisors" out there making millions without doing any work? I know a dozen or so people on wall street. They were all toward the top of their class at good colleges, work 60-80 hour weeks, and earn between $65k and $120k, while living in NYC

If there were really jobs out there that paid millions for no work, don't you think more people would be doing them? Hell, I know I would.

Wall street has plenty of problems, but the idea that it's mostly criminals is just ridiculous.
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I have been offered tax avoidance schemes in the past. I tell them I would rather pay the taxes. My govt has done things for me. One "advisor" tried to convince me to borrow money against my home equity and invest it with him. He even brought up the tax deduction of the interest I would be paying, like giving money away in interest is a good thing !!!
Some of their logic totally escapes me. Another wanted me to buy an insurance policy that was part of an IRA. It ended with an annuity, that paid til I died, but THEN THEY KEPT THE PRINCIPAL, which would have been almost a million bucks. They were going to pay me 5% on my own money, then keep the principal when I die. If that isn't a criminal enterprise, I don't know what is....:2razz:
 
NolaMan said:
I mean, they don't make millions doing it, except in those very rare circumstances.

I have gone through a number of financial advisors myself, fired the latest after the BP rig explosion. I hold a lot of Anadarko stock (they own a 25% operating interest in that rig) and I was following it pretty closely the days after the explosion, sold a bit myself, then called my advisor to see if he agreed with my research. He was unaware that Anadarko even had this stake in the rig, so I moved on in a hurry from him.

I certainly did not pay him "millions" however.[/QUOTE] IF he rips off $1000 each from a thousand clients, there is his first milliion in just one year......
They nibble away at YOUR assets.
Granted, not all are doing it, but plenty of them are. And most of them have lots of fees.
One of my neighbors who can't keep a job even with a CPA license called me last week wanting me to invest thru him. I told him that my investment strategy for the next 20 years is to spend it all and I don't need an advisor for that....
We have grandkids to put thru college, that is where most of it will go...

I have been around long enough to know quite a few people who trusted someone else with their money, and lost much of it....
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UtahBill said:
IF he rips off $1000 each from a thousand clients, there is his first milliion in just one year......
They nibble away at YOUR assets.
Granted, not all are doing it, but plenty of them are. And most of them have lots of fees.
One of my neighbors who can't keep a job even with a CPA license called me last week wanting me to invest thru him. I told him that my investment strategy for the next 20 years is to spend it all and I don't need an advisor for that....
We have grandkids to put thru college, that is where most of it will go...

I have been around long enough to know quite a few people who trusted someone else with their money, and lost much of it....
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I don't know, I have always had enough invested with them to where most of the fees were waived.

Not to mention, you don't have to hire an advisor if you don't want one, you can invest on your own.
 
NolaMan said:
I don't know, I have always had enough invested with them to where most of the fees were waived.

Not to mention, you don't have to hire an advisor if you don't want one, you can invest on your own.
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Tried that, I suck at it....:(
 
NolaMan said:
Eliminating social security would devalue the dollar? How exactly?
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If you don't understand, then you need to study some macroeconomics.

If SS was in Al Gore's magical "lock-box", then giving it back would have no impact on the dollar. But it's part of the gov't's budget; thus it would be nothing more than another liquidation. It's printing more money. If you gave every SS dollar back to everyone owed, it would be SOOOOO much money that it would completely devalue the dollar. If you think the bailout was a disaster, your plan would make the bailout look like "brother can you spare a dime".
 
FilmFestGuy said:
If you don't understand, then you need to study some macroeconomics.

If SS was in Al Gore's magical "lock-box", then giving it back would have no impact on the dollar. But it's part of the gov't's budget; thus it would be nothing more than another liquidation. It's printing more money. If you gave every SS dollar back to everyone owed, it would be SOOOOO much money that it would completely devalue the dollar. If you think the bailout was a disaster, your plan would make the bailout look like "brother can you spare a dime".
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Well, I don't view "elimination" as meaning "giving back everyone all the money they have put in", that would be impossible. If that actually did happen, I agree, it would involve a lot of money being printed and would not be positive for the economy.

I view elimination as ceasing future payments, and basically being forced to forfeit what has already been put in.
 
NolaMan said:
Social Security already offers a negative return rate (once I factor in inflation), why on Earth would I want to give my kids and grandkids an investment that losses them money? I would much rather help them set up a retirement savings account that can at least earn a positive return for them.
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You'd better make sure that they cannot access said savings account except to make deposits. Young people tend to have different ideas about money than older folks.
 
I tell all the younger people I know to borrow only for a house, and to pay that way down as soon as possible, and to have savings on hand to pay it off if they have to. Where there is no mortgage, or car payment, or credit card payments, there is no chance to lose what you have.

What I see a lot is that people use the equity in their homes like a back hoe, as a tool to dig a deeper hole than they could otherwise. They live on both incomes and borrow more to live better than they need to. Then one of them loses a job, and they find themselves at the bottom of a very deep hole and their creditors are not helping. What a surprise!!

Creditors are NOT your friends.....:(
 
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