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Thread: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    I hope Egypt is not falling off the wagon with Turkey.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Obviously this now proves he is Muslim and the impeachment should begin. I will get the pitchforks and the mob from the Northeast and we will meet everyone in D.C.

    Well after today's soccer games.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie T. Mouse View Post
    SO WHAT IF HE IS ????
    Americans has freedom of religion, Yes or No ????
    Watch his action not his words !!!!
    BY THE WAY..... I don' believe a word of this statement, He said, She said, They said, We Said....
    Next please.... What else is new ????
    You were just in another thread citing as "fact" a statement President Bush allegedly made to a Palestinian official. A little consitancy please.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is possible (sic) to bash Obama without being called a racist?
    Of course it is. But it's not possible to say:

    One word for you, my German friend: Holocaust
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Moderator's Warning:
    Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a MuslimAlright, since the OP of this thread in his commentary clearly made it less about discussing what the Egyptian politician said and more about going "OBAMA'S A MUSLIM!" you know where this belongs.


    -EDIT-

    Moderator's Warning:
    Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a MuslimOn second review, since the thread has been moving towards an actual discussion whether than "Obama is a secret muslim" I'm going to leave it in news 2.0 for now. If it starts verging into simply focusing on the conspiracy theory aspect of it though it will be moved to the appropriate forum.

  6. #56
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    So we have a blog reporting that Obama told the Egyptian Foreign minister(whose name he misspelled) that Obama is a Muslim. A quick search shows that the only reports on this are from the blog. No confirmation whatsoever except a very biased blog. So either we believe people on faith for no reason in a story that makes no sense, or we look at the evidence and say that it is highly improbable.

    It is very unlikely Obama is Muslim. It's very unlikely that Obama told the Egyptian Minster he is Muslim. Even if those two unlikely things where true, it has no effect on anything. It's almost embarrassing that some people in the wold are this gullible. Looking at the comments on the blog site make me fear for the future of humanity, that there really are that many stupid people.
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The red in our quote could be changed from "is" to "was". They're changing, from the top down.
    Any sources for that that hold up water?

    Also, if Turks are so tolerant, why do the Polizei dare not to go into the Turkish Ghetto's in Berlin?
    I know, what I say won't impress you, because you apparently know much more about Germany than any German does, and more than I do, although I've been living here for decades ...

    But for what it's worth, as a Berlin citizen, I want to tell you that I think this statement hardly is true. First, there is no thing as a "Turkish Ghetto" in Berlin. You have a few quarters where the number of Turkish-stemming migrants is higher than in others, and in some of these places, Turkish shops and businesses seem to dominate the streetscape. Yet, they are hardly "ghettos". There are also still a large number of native Germans living in these quarters. Many of them are even famous quarters for students and young Germans with alternative lifestyle, and "hip" cafés, alternative clubs and vivid youth cuture is just as prominent there, as Turkish life.

    Then, I have never (and I really mean: absolutely never, not one single time) heard that "German policement are afraid" of going to these places. On the contrary, if at all, there are complains that there is too much crime there and the police has to go there way too often (and actually does it). Maybe you are confusing Berlin in Germany with some other place you've heard about. I can't speak for the situation in Paris, France, for example, and I was told the "ghettoization" is much, much worse there than here in Berlin.

    I want to assure you, with my best knowledge and first hand experience, the situation in Berlin is by far not as bad as some hysterics claim it is. I've often been even to those quarters which have a bad reputation and crime problems, also at night (between 12 and 2am), and while I met many young people (both migrants and natives) passing by, I have never been threatened, attacked or robbed. (Although once, a guy offered to sell me weed.) Now I don't know that first hand, but I think the degree of "ghetthoization" and subsequent problems with general and gang violence is much worse in many American metropolitan regions (at least that's what you hear. Not sure if it's true).

    Why is there Sharia law being carried out in these ghettos, ...
    LOL, that would be new to me.

    I can assure you, Sharia law is not carried out anywhere in Germany.

    ...girls murdered by their families because they became westernized?
    That sometimes happens, and it is indeed one of the problems that still need to be solved, when it comes to integration of migrants.

    But when you look deeper into the issue, you will find that 1) this does not happen by far that often that is allows generalizations about Muslim immigrants in general (just like occasional murders on abortion doctors, or assaults on homosexuals doesn't allow the conclusion that Christians in general support these actions), and 2) these actions are strictly opposed on condemned by a majority of immigrants as well. Also, you will find that 3) that these "honor killings" have not much to do with Muslim religion, and is indeed most strictly opposed by those Muslims who are most religious, because it's a direct violation of Quranic rules. It's rather a problem of a backwards, pre-modern patriarchalistic tradition prevalent among many immigrants, which they don't have because of their religion, but despite it.

    This backward authoritarian tradition of many immigrants (who often happen to be Muslim) indeed is a problem that does exist and needs to be solved. That's why we need dialogue and clear rules. This debate already exists and there are many participants, including religious Muslims who fight think kind of tradition based on their religious believes (much like religious Muslim clerics are strong fighters against the tradition of female mutilation in countries like Egypt, for example).

    Look, I understand where you are coming from, and that you are suspicious towards Muslims and Islam. That's normal. People tend to generalize and fear what they don't know. But I think you are jumping way too quickly to way too broad assumptions and conclusions. You should take the time, just as I did, to address Muslim immigrants here (you also find many online, if none are living in your environment), to talk with them about these problems, to hear their opinions. Like this, you learn to know them better and you will see that "the Muslims" or "the Muslim immigrants" are by far not such a homogenous block as you seem to think it is, that there are very significant differences between subgroups, that they too have a variety of opinions and attitudes towards their religion.

    You really should take this effort.

    Why do they not assimilate if they are so open? After so many years... and it isn't getting better.
    Is it?
    What makes you think "they" don't do that?

    In fact, two of my friends are children of Muslim immigrants and they couldn't be more assimilated (one of them is atheist, the other Muslim, but rather secular). So apparently, some of them do.

    But you are right, it's true that some of them do not, or many don't do it enough, and that is indeed a problem. It's also not just a cultural problem, but (maybe even moreso) a social problem. Lack of willingness or capacity to adoption on the side of immigrants plays just as much a role here, as racism and a lack of providing opportunities from the side of natives does. These problems need to be soberly discussed, and I agree they must not be ignored. But this debate must be remain respectful, and one-sidedly attaching blame to one side and painting it with a broad brush of resentment won't help matters (it even aggravates the problem).

    I'll say it's not all Turks... I have met some nice folks, and they make one hell of a good Doener.
    Scharf bitte.
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Would you agree that in most of these Islamic states, there is little or no separation of government and religion?
    You point to very good questions.

    I'd say that in most of them, there is indeed less separation of government and religion (although in most of them, clerics have only few to say in the government). Generally, religion plays a more important role in these societies in general, than it does in the West (some states in the American south may be an exception, though :P ), so it necessarily has a stronger influence on politics.

    That maybe results in the problem that these societies don't meet our standards of a free, democratic society. But do they really need to? I don't think they are necessarily more aggressive or expansionist towards other states.

    If so, does it become the responsibilty of their governments to "reign in" these extremist groups? If so, how can we separate the two?
    Extremist Muslim groups, while they do exist in all Muslim countries, are hardly mainstream. Often, there is even strong opposition by mainstream clerics against them. That's why I fail to see how the problem of the existence of these groups necessarily differs fundamentally from the existence of extremist groups in Western societies (unless, of course, such radical or extremist groups have a chance of getting in power in the respective country).

    Egypt has the "Muslim Brotherhood". It's opposed by mainstream Islam, most Egyptians don't sympathize with them, and the government even oppresses them. So as long as they are nowhere close to take power, why should this be anymore of a problem for us than, say, fascist or neo-Nazi groups in European countries, or communist parties?
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #59
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    The OP reeks of propaganda and lies. First of all, Obama's father was an ex Muslim that became an atheist. If Obama is a Muslim then he is a terrible on at that. What Muslim goes to a church that professes Christianity? What Muslim says he's a Christian and doesn't attend mosque services?
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The OP reeks of propaganda and lies. First of all, Obama's father was an ex Muslim that became an atheist. If Obama is a Muslim then he is a terrible on at that. What Muslim goes to a church that professes Christianity? What Muslim says he's a Christian and doesn't attend mosque services?
    One that is trying to turn the U.S.A into a Muslim country obviously.

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