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Thread: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

  1. #41
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    I agree; but I would have to say that in the recent past the US has tried much harder than the Muslim World to bring about peaceful and diplomatic solutions. The Arabs/Muslims (at least various groups/states in the Muslim World) have been waging war for over two-thousand years against Judaism and Christianity. I believe most Christians have given up the Crusades, the Muslim World; however, seems to feel otherwise.
    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Of course you are right when you point to Muslim countries that are ugly dictatorships with anti-Western agendas: There are problems with Iran, Syria, to a lesser degree northern African Arab countries. But I don't think the troubles with these countries are primarily based on their Muslim religion. After all, there are many examples to the contrary: Saudi-Arabia is an orthodox Muslim country with a stone-age society, where the lable "islamofascism" actually fits -- yet, it's a close ally of the US and the West, and their leadership hardly makes trouble. Turkey is an example for a very open and even secular Muslim country. Egypt may occasionally be a little annoying, but in general is a US ally as well. And Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country, doesn't pose any threat whatsoever for the West.

    All these countries may not meet our standards of a free and democratic society, but they are not attacking us either, or posing too many diplomatic problems. In fact, at very least peaceful coexistence, usually even significant amount of trade is very well possible and common with these countries. That they are Muslim apparently doesn't make them any more aggressive towards us.

    The problems that arise, especially with Iran and Syria, probably have more to do with their status as emerging regional powers, including proliferation, similar to the problem with North Korea (which obviously isn't Muslim). The problem in Pakistan (and other generally peaceful Muslim countries) is hardly a problem of their entire population being extremist and anti-Western, but with smaller extremist Muslim subgroups within these countries, that are hardly a majority and usually opposed by the Muslim establishment within these countries and their elites.

    So I don't think Islam in general is violent or especially expansionist, in general. There are problems, yes, but I don't think they can be generalized.
    Last edited by German guy; 06-10-10 at 11:56 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i heard the New Zealand member for bovine brothels said Obama is a Zoroastrianist
    My cousin's girlfriend's mother's boyfiend's best friend's uncle's co-worker's nanny's husband's mistress's newborn's nurse's dog's dog sitter's great-aunt's god daughter's teacher's principal's secretary's boyfriend's friend who knows this guy said that Obama picks his nose and eats it.
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    My cousin's girlfriend's mother's boyfiend's best friend's uncle's co-worker's nanny's husband's mistress's newborn's nurse's dog's dog sitter's great-aunt's god daughter's teacher's principal's secretary's boyfriend's friend who knows this guy said that Obama picks his nose and eats it.
    Most insightful post yet! I mean it. Perfect!

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Hahaha ... I'm not sure I'm the right person to do that.

    But as a consolation prize, I want at least to give you this insight into contemporary German pop-culture (and yes, it does involve a German chick! =) ):

    WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    She is SMOKIN' hot!!!!!!!!!
    She cant sing for **** though.
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
    DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS
    DESTROYING THE BEST OF AMERICA ONE DAY AT A TIME

    This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against ME! ~ Bender

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Of course you are right when you point to Muslim countries that are ugly dictatorships with anti-Western agendas: There are problems with Iran, Syria, to a lesser degree northern African Arab countries. But I don't think the troubles with these countries are primarily based on their Muslim religion. After all, there are many examples to the contrary: Saudi-Arabia is an orthodox Muslim country with a stone-age society, where the lable "islamofascism" actually fits -- yet, it's a close ally of the US and the West, and their leadership hardly makes trouble. Turkey is an example for a very open and even secular Muslim country. Egypt may occasionally be a little annoying, but in general is a US ally as well. And Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country, doesn't pose any threat whatsoever for the West.

    All these countries may not meet our standards of a free and democratic society, but they are not attacking us either, or posing too many diplomatic problems. In fact, at very least peaceful coexistence, usually even significant amount of trade is very well possible and common with these countries. That they are Muslim apparently doesn't make them any more aggressive towards us.

    The problems that arise, especially with Iran and Syria, probably have more to do with their status as emerging regional powers, including proliferation, similar to the problem with North Korea (which obviously isn't Muslim). The problem in Pakistan (and other generally peaceful Muslim countries) is hardly a problem of their entire population being extremist and anti-Western, but with smaller extremist Muslim subgroups within these countries, that are hardly a majority and usually opposed by the Muslim establishment within these countries and their elites.

    So I don't think Islam in general is violent or especially expansionist, in general. There are problems, yes, but I don't think they can be generalized.
    So, I assume you guys in Germany have lived in a bubble since reunification, no real news ever gets in huh? Here are just a few sites if you are interested that tell of recent acts of ant-Christian/anti-Western thought violence in Egypt, Indonesia, Burma, and even Turkey.
    Indonesia: Muslim mob burns two churches over lack of "permits" - Jihad Watch
    The wave of anti-Christian violence | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | The Guardian
    US Congress team in Egypt to probe anti-Christian violence - Worldnews.com
    Alarm in Turkey over violence against Christians (SETimes.com)

    and here's another recent story from good ol' Egypt, who, btw, murdered their own president not so long ago, after one of our presidents helped negotiate a peace treaty between the Egyptians and Israel:


    Coptic Christians protest in Egypt after an attack in which gunmen opened fire on a crowd of churchgoers. Photograph: Khaled El-Fiqi/EPA
    Wake up and read the news.
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 06-11-10 at 02:17 AM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  6. #46
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    So, I assume you guys in Germany have lived in a bubble since reunification, no real news ever gets in huh? Here are just a few sites if you are interested that tell of recent acts of ant-Christian/anti-Western thought violence in Egypt, Indonesia, Burma, and even Turkey.
    Indonesia: Muslim mob burns two churches over lack of "permits" - Jihad Watch
    The wave of anti-Christian violence | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | The Guardian
    US Congress team in Egypt to probe anti-Christian violence - Worldnews.com
    Alarm in Turkey over violence against Christians (SETimes.com)

    and here's another recent story from good ol' Egypt, who, btw, murdered their own president not so long ago, after one of our presidents helped negotiate a peace treaty between the Egyptians and Israel:




    Wake up and read the news.
    No need to get snippy.

    What you post here in no way contradicts what I wrote.

    All you mention are examples for extremist non-government organizations or individual extremists among Muslims. I never denied there is a problem with extremism in Islam.

    But I don't think they allow generalizations about Islam. You can just as well present examples of anti-Muslim crimes across Europe, angry mobs attacking mosques and civil initiatives attempting to force Muslims out of their cities and countries, neo-Nazi attacks or even official discrimination. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands alone is responsible for much more anti-Muslim actions and hatred than the Muslims in the articles you posted combined. Does that allow the conclusion that the West is a bunch of anti-Muslim fanatics who give a **** about freedom of religion? Interested hawks in the Muslim world certainly do that, with not any less justification as people here make generalizations about Islam based on sources like those you posted.

    I think we all should keep a cool head. It's easy to villify the other side, and to broad-brush whatever we are not famililar with. But I don't think it helps making this planet a better place.
    Last edited by German guy; 06-11-10 at 02:46 AM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    No need to get snippy.

    What you post here in no way contradicts what I wrote.

    All you mention are examples for extremist non-government organizations or individual extremists among Muslims. I never denied there is a problem with extremism in Islam.

    But I don't think they allow generalizations about Islam. You can just as well present examples of anti-Muslim crimes across Europe, angry mobs attacking mosques and civil initiatives attempting to force Muslims out of their cities and countries, neo-Nazi attacks or even official discrimination. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands alone is responsible for much more anti-Muslim actions and hatred than the Muslims in the articles you posted combined. Does that allow the conclusion that the West is a bunch of anti-Muslim fanatics who give a **** about freedom of religion? Interested hawks in the Muslim world certainly do that, with not any less justification as people here make generalizations about Islam based on sources like those you posted.

    I think we all should keep a cool head. It's easy to villify the other side, and to broad-brush whatever we are not famililar with. But I don't think it helps making this planet a better place.
    The problem is, most of these Muslim fanatical groups, which are allowed to exist within Muslim States, see America as a Christian Nation (and many as the Great Satan) and they tend to equate ANY form of Christianity (even their own Coptics) with America. By virtue of their irrational line of thinking, we (the USA) inadvertantly become a target of their aggression as well. Therefore, acts of anti-Christian violence perpetrated by these groups and accepted or in some cases even supported by Islamic governments essentially become problems for the U.S. In my view it is difficult to mutually exclude the two. Would you agree that in most of these Islamic states, there is little or no separation of government and religion? If so, does it become the responsibilty of their governments to "reign in" these extremist groups? If so, how can we separate the two?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    I dont get whats the big deal, so he is Muslim... Big whoop
    I dont get whats the big deal?
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  9. #49
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Of course you are right when you point to Muslim countries that are ugly dictatorships with anti-Western agendas: There are problems with Iran, Syria, to a lesser degree northern African Arab countries. But I don't think the troubles with these countries are primarily based on their Muslim religion. After all, there are many examples to the contrary: Saudi-Arabia is an orthodox Muslim country with a stone-age society, where the lable "islamofascism" actually fits -- yet, it's a close ally of the US and the West, and their leadership hardly makes trouble. Turkey is an example for a very open and even secular Muslim country. Egypt may occasionally be a little annoying, but in general is a US ally as well. And Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country, doesn't pose any threat whatsoever for the West.

    All these countries may not meet our standards of a free and democratic society, but they are not attacking us either, or posing too many diplomatic problems. In fact, at very least peaceful coexistence, usually even significant amount of trade is very well possible and common with these countries. That they are Muslim apparently doesn't make them any more aggressive towards us.

    The problems that arise, especially with Iran and Syria, probably have more to do with their status as emerging regional powers, including proliferation, similar to the problem with North Korea (which obviously isn't Muslim). The problem in Pakistan (and other generally peaceful Muslim countries) is hardly a problem of their entire population being extremist and anti-Western, but with smaller extremist Muslim subgroups within these countries, that are hardly a majority and usually opposed by the Muslim establishment within these countries and their elites.

    So I don't think Islam in general is violent or especially expansionist, in general. There are problems, yes, but I don't think they can be generalized.
    The red in our quote could be changed from "is" to "was". They're changing, from the top down.

    Also, if Turks are so tolerant, why do the Polizei dare not to go into the Turkish Ghetto's in Berlin?
    Why is there Sharia law being carried out in these ghettos, girls murdered by their families because they became westernized?
    Why do they not assimilate if they are so open? After so many years... and it isn't getting better.
    Is it?

    I'll say it's not all Turks... I have met some nice folks, and they make one hell of a good Doener.
    Scharf bitte.

    The media, for instance, has jumped on a recent case in Wiesbaden, a sleepy town of 200,000 where, in order to defend the honor of the family, a brother shot his sister after the sister decided to marry an ethnic German. Such kind of behavior is unfortunately all too normal. At a party recently, I spoke with a doctor who fulminated against what he sees in the urban hospital where he works in Mannheim. The doctor repeatedly stated that he had lots of Turkish friends and was not a nationalist but could not abide the Turkish women he saw daily who had been beaten to a bloody pulp by overzealous husbands. Such a perspective explains the European intolerance of the headscarf. Like this doctor, many Europeans do not believe that Muslim women are exercising their right to religious freedom by donning the headscarf, rather they see it as a political symbol that signifies oppression of women by the Islamic male patriarchy, which denies these women the right to learn German and interact in society and openly condones the physical abuse of women.
    http://hnn.us/articles/12640.html
    Last edited by zimmer; 06-11-10 at 07:35 AM.
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    I did not say anything about the GOP this is about Obama. You try to give Obama a pass by brining up the GOP. You make my point

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