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Thread: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

  1. #261
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A) There is no evidence of direct CIA involvement in the coup against Allende.

    B) Yes Mossadeq and Allende were bad guys, neither were elected and both attempted to overthrow the democratic order which allowed them to come to power.
    Use in de_nile, my friend. The US involvement in the overthrow of Allende is conventional wisdom. CIA documents made public in 2000 basically confessed. I am sorry, but saying the US had no involvement is revisionist history (amazing how much the regressives like to re-write history to suggest the US is always the guy wearing the white hat. ) Certainly we did not like another marxist government forming within the Western Hemisphere, duly elected or not, but we were really ticked off when Allende took the Chilean nationalization of the copper mining industry to another level. This really ticked of ITT, who became the Halliburton of 1973 as a proxy to secure US interests.

    CIA Acknowledges Ties to Pinochet’s Repression

    http://www.historycommons.org/contex...tem=chile_1639

    You can argue the merits of the Pinnocet takeover, but spare me the ill-informed piousness that the US was not involved. It was!
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-18-10 at 11:18 PM.

  2. #262
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Use in de_nile, my friend. The US involvement in the overthrow of Allende is conventional wisdom. CIA documents made public in 2000 basically confessed. I am sorry, but saying the US had no involvement is revisionist history (amazing how much the regressives like to re-write history to suggest the US is always the guy wearing the white hat. ) Certainly we did not like another marxist government forming within the Western Hemisphere, duly elected or not, but we were really ticked off when Allende took the Chilean nationalization of the copper mining industry to another level. This really ticked of ITT, who became the Halliburton of 1973 as a proxy to secure US interests.

    CIA Acknowledges Ties to Pinochet’s Repression

    Context of '1964: CIA Spends Millions to Prevent Allende Election'

    You can argue the merits of the Pinnocet takeover, but spare me the ill-informed piousness that the US was not involved. It was!
    Show me a single document that shows that the U.S. did anything other than funding opposition media outlets and political parties. The CIA neither ordered Pinochet to overthrow Allende or financed/armed the coup plotters at least there is no evidence to that effect. The Chilean Chamber of Deputies as well as the Chilean Supreme Court ordered Pinochet to oust Allende for his numerous crime against the Chilean Constitution, now unless you are saying that the U.S. ordered both the Chilean Supreme Court and Chilean Congress to order Pinochet to oust Allende from power you really don't have a leg to stand on, this wasn't your typical military coup, this was backed by two of the three branches of the Chilean Republic. Yes we were opposed to Allende, yes we backed Pinochet after the fact that =/= being responsible for the coup.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-18-10 at 11:33 PM.

  3. #263
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Show me a single document that shows that the U.S. did anything other than funding opposition media outlets and political parties. The CIA neither ordered Pinochet to overthrow Allende or financed/armed the coup plotters at least there is no evidence to that effect. The Chilean Chamber of Deputies as well as the Chilean Supreme Court ordered Pinochet to oust Allende for his numerous crime against the Chilean Constitution, now unless you are saying that the U.S. ordered both the Chilean Supreme Court and Chilean Congress to order Pinochet to oust Allende from power you really don't have a leg to stand on, this wasn't your typical military coup, this was backed by two of the three branches of the Chilean Republic. Yes we were opposed to Allende, yes we backed Pinochet after the fact that =/= being responsible for the coup.
    First you said there was no evidence that the US supported the coup. I take your retort that we opposed Allende and backed Pinnocet as either or both the admission that you were wrong that there is evidence that the US supported the coup, and now you just wish to argue what support means.

    Of course no one "ordered" Pinochet or anyone else to do anything, but we certainly were active in the planning, coddling, financing, encouraging (we knew the coup date, we let Pinnocet know he would be loved and supported after the coup, we worked the legislature (that was our manipulation that gave rise, not their individual outrage), we encouraged them to get rid of people that were in the way) and training of key members of the military. Guns were even supplied at times. This is all a great read. A real life James Bond story, with a successful outcome from a Langley perspective.

    Here is are the cliff notes of the CIA document. You will find this is substantially supported in the CIA declassified documents I previously supplied (pages 8-12 are the most interesting of that document)

    Salvador Allende

    I don't know why this is such a big deal. It is conventional wisdom that the US manipulated the affairs in Chile to create and support this coup. So what? You should be arguing about its significance or the ethics thereof, not whether it actually occurred. This is almost like arguing there was no holocaust.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-19-10 at 12:23 AM.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    First you said there was no evidence that the US supported the coup. I take your retort that we opposed Allende and backed Pinnocet as either or both the admission that you were wrong that there is evidence that the US supported the coup, and now you just wish to argue what support means.
    I of course meant that we didn't offer material aid to the coup, we didn't direct the coup, yes I'll agree that we supported the government after the fact.

    Of course no one "ordered" Pinochet or anyone else to do anything, but we certainly were active in the planning, coddling, financing, encouraging (we knew the coup date, we let Pinnocet know he would be loved and supported after the coup, we worked the legislature (that was our manipulation that gave rise, not their individual outrage), we encouraged them to get rid of people that were in the way) and training of key members of the military. Guns were even supplied at times. This is all a great read. A real life James Bond story, with a successful outcome from a Langley perspective.

    Here is are the cliff notes of the CIA document. You will find this is substantially supported in the CIA declassified documents I previously supplied (pages 8-12 are the most interesting of that document)

    Salvador Allende

    I don't know why this is such a big deal. It is conventional wisdom that the US manipulated the affairs in Chile to create and support this coup. So what? You should be arguing about its significance or the ethics thereof, not whether it actually occurred. This is almost like arguing there was no holocaust.
    A) I don't really consider two of the three branches of government ordering the third to resign for numerous violations of the Constitution to constitution as a coup to begin with, more like a counter-coup.

    B) The reason why Allende was forced out is due to his radical policies which caused the loss of support from the Christian Democrats who were originally responsible for granting him the 1% plurality that put him into office in the first place, once their support was lost he was done for, now just what the hell did the U.S. do exactly to cause this reversal? Short answer it wasn't the U.S. that turned them it was Allende's overt Marxism that even scared the **** out of the center left. The U.S. supported opposition political parties and media outlets but it was Allende's own bloody people that turned against him.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 06-20-10 at 12:42 AM.

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