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Thread: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Remember, people like ptif219 believe what they wish to be true rather then what history, facts, logic and God's Gift to Man, REASON, suggest.

    ptif219 clearly believes that Obama is a Muslim based on the secondary source of a questionable Israeli website that provides no actual hard evidence of its claims.

    Amusing how those to defended Bush aganist all kinds of whackjob attacks have no problem engaging in the same attacks on Obama. You'd think they'd realize what they were doing...but then again, public education in America is piss poor! What do you expect?
    Wrong I say Obama is a liar and can not be believed. He claimed to be Christian when he went to a racist church for 20 years. Then claimed he did know the church was racist. Obama has a history that shows he can not be believed and he has no credibility

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Ok. You say Muslims don't condemn terrorism. I show you that's wrong. Then you say that doesn't make a difference, because they are lying.

    It seems Muslims can only do wrong. Either they are horrible, because they don't condemn terrorism, and when they do, they are even more horrible, because they lie. Seems you have made up your mind already and there is no way any Muslim could ever act in a manner that would change your stereotyping hatred.
    Nice try but your sources condemn terrorism when they also support it in other ways show the deception in SOME Muslim organizations

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Not necessarily. He could've misunderstood. He could've mishood. The blogger could be lying. The blogger could've misunderstood. The blogger could've misrepresented. Etc.
    So Obama the great speaker is not clear?

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I stand by my offhand remark. I wasn't commenting on the preconceived notions of the guy from Islam. I was referring to certain people here. I really don't care what this guy thinks because I have no way of knowing whether he is being honest or if his remarks are politically motivated.



    One of the very basics of Islam is that you profess your faith. Not doing that and calling yourself a muslim would be like not believing Jesus Christ and calling yourself a christian. There are some firm lines.



    It probably would destroy his career, but I would like some solid evidence that it was true. Perhaps a picture of him praying or evidence of him performing the hajj, etc. But no this isn't damage control. What would be the point of damage control on a forum where people have already made up their mind? I like to think I am a little smarter than what you are accusing me of here.

    Ultimately, there are some people who are going to believe what they want to, no matter what reality and evidence presents (the people here commonly referred to as hacks) and there are people here who are reasonable (I like to think that you Ockham are one of those people). I was laughing at the hacks because they deserve to be laughed at. In no way was I trying to make a greater point because right now, in the absense of evidence, there is none to be made.
    Given a presumption that Obama, if he were actually a Muslim, wants or continues to want to hide evidence that he is a Muslim (I know that's a lot of if's) - I doubt you'll get evidence of Obama at a hajj or on a prayer rug... as it's contrary to "keeping it a secret". Why would he keep it a secret? You've stated why - because you also believe it would end his Presidency - therefore your need to have such evidence will not occur. But you already knew that by saying you'd need such evidence - right?

    And I agree - hacks will use whatever evidence or hits of evidence to further an agenda and Obama is a huge target - as any President would be. I'm more curious as to why this Egyptian FM - if the quote is correct - would say such a thing to the press as the FM said himself - what was said is "in confidence". Surely there's some motivation there either for or against Obama as it's not clear which is at work. Israel may use it against him, the Muslim world may see it as a "positive" for Obama. Domestically here in the U.S., it'd go badly, so I doubt we'll find out anything for another 50 years when Obama's long gone and a FOIA (if they still exist) is petitioned.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So Obama the great speaker is not clear?
    Well yes, quite possibly. Considering I don't believe him to be a great speaker, but a great speech maker, I think its definitely possible. Even with the greatest of speakers too its possible when you're putting foreign individuals together.Not to mention that's the far more realistic and logical option than Obama telling some random state official in some random other country a secret that somehow every political opponent and his own parties political vetters somehow managed to never turn up in his 10+ years of running for public office.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well yes, quite possibly. Considering I don't believe him to be a great speaker, but a great speech maker, I think its definitely possible. Even with the greatest of speakers too its possible when you're putting foreign individuals together.Not to mention that's the far more realistic and logical option than Obama telling some random state official in some random other country a secret that somehow every political opponent and his own parties political vetters somehow managed to never turn up in his 10+ years of running for public office.
    Wit Obama's history of lying and deceiving you can say that? You must be joking

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Given a presumption that Obama, if he were actually a Muslim, wants or continues to want to hide evidence that he is a Muslim (I know that's a lot of if's) - I doubt you'll get evidence of Obama at a hajj or on a prayer rug... as it's contrary to "keeping it a secret". Why would he keep it a secret? You've stated why - because you also believe it would end his Presidency - therefore your need to have such evidence will not occur. But you already knew that by saying you'd need such evidence - right?
    Contrary to what you seem to think. I am not trying to precounter arguments. I am simply stating what I am thinking and nothing beyond or around that. You are correct that at the end of that series of ifs, there is a possible conclusion that Obama is a Muslim. However, I cannot get past the idea that a devout religious person is going to lie about their religion and risk seriously pissing off their deity, especially when apostasy (denying the faith) is a HUGE sin in Islam. Hes pretty much buying himself a ticket to hell, according to that belief system. It makes no sense to me.

    The other possibility is that he is not a strong muslim, but is a weak one. But again, the argument still stands, if his believe or commitment is so weak that he sees no problem in hiding it, than I have doubts about the authenticity of his faith at all. Doubts to the point that if someone has such a weak hold than they are probably are not going to use their religion in any real way when it comes to the decisions they make. This is a possibility, but if he does turn out to be this kind of muslim, he is really no different than an uncommited Christian, atheist, or anything, because his decisions are going to be based on another rationale. There is no reason to care.

    However, this is the way I really look at it. People have been trying to find a way to delegitimize Obama since before he took office with the birther stuff, the scary socialism stuff, and probably some other things I am not thinking of at the moment. All of it turned out to be pretty silly in the end. Given past behavior, I see no reason to take these sorts of people's arguments with any sort of credibility because "proof" has been found for all the other silly stuff he has been accused of. Because of that, I am going to raise the bar on what I will accept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And I agree - hacks will use whatever evidence or hits of evidence to further an agenda and Obama is a huge target - as any President would be. I'm more curious as to why this Egyptian FM - if the quote is correct - would say such a thing to the press as the FM said himself - what was said is "in confidence". Surely there's some motivation there either for or against Obama as it's not clear which is at work. Israel may use it against him, the Muslim world may see it as a "positive" for Obama. Domestically here in the U.S., it'd go badly, so I doubt we'll find out anything for another 50 years when Obama's long gone and a FOIA (if they still exist) is petitioned.
    The way I see it, with all the stuff that happened at the blockade the last few weeks, everyone is a little on edge and in that sort of atmosphere, people have been known to either make up or exaggerate these sorts of things. Right no, the citizens of Egypt and other mostly Muslim countries are pretty pissed off about what went down and a little comment like this can do lots to pacify people if they think that the US is a little less antagonistic towards them. Having a Muslim president would serve well to pacify people.

    However, if you will notice, I am speculating, as we all are at this point. Nobody really knows anything because there is a lack of satisfactory evidence at this point. But hacks are gonna do what hacks do.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If he is, it's shown a few things.

    First, he lied to the American people about his faith and is hiding his true faith - probably because he knows that a majority of Americans do not want a President of the United States who is a Muslim. Second, he's trying to hide it. Third, such a faith may be affecting his foreign policy where Israel / Palestine is concerned. Fourth, it's not affecting the killing of Al Qaeda members apparently.
    AH yes, the usual Truther method. Don't actually accuse, but make sure you get those "what if" rants in.



    Nile-TV is not a "random website" but the 2nd News Network of Egypt.
    Nile TV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Spinning and dismissing doesn't work well on the interwebz.
    Funny you did not link to the Nile TV show that this happened on. No one seems to be able to find any evidence it happened. This would be like me claiming that Obama said he is the Antichrist on CBS, Saying that CBS exists is not evidence that Obama actually said anything like that.

    Faulty logic fails miserably on the internets.

    Evidence and reason are not one in the same. The evidence as you call it, in this case shows a quotation from the Egyptian FM who stated:

    "The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim," said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit on Nile TV. Link

    The evidence so far is one sided: Egypt's FM says Obama told him he (Obama) is (not was) a Muslim. It's unknown how it was meant but that's the quoted claim. I see no evidence to the contrary that such statement was taken out of context, was a figurative statement or was a misquote. There's also some verbal slip ups where Obama says "My Muslim faith" and then corrects himself to state "my Christian faith" - faux pas? Ok. But the evidence claiming Obama is a Muslim is mounting... that doesn't make it true, it just means the evidence is mounting.

    Did Obama pick a Church in Washington D.C. yet?
    There is still nothing more than some Israeli op-ed and blogs claiming this to be the case. The first report of it was a blog, and nothing since has offered an actual link to his actual words, or to the show itself. Even if it was said, that still leaves many layers of possible misunderstanding or lying that have nothing to do with Obama.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wit Obama's history of lying and deceiving you can say that? You must be joking
    Absolutely. Because, as you see, he has a HISTORY of it. There's a history there because its been found out, seen, exposed, proven, etc.

    Yet at the same time we're supposed to believe that for the vast majority of his life and his decade in public office that he has managed to completely and utterly keep secret from everyone possible that he was a muslim to the point of being able to assure that there could be no solid proof what so ever that would be found by his own party that vets their candidates nor the multitude of opposition that digs for dirt on a person, including when he was running for the highest office in all the land.

    So he's managed to keep something like that secret while openly lying about it on a national stage while having every spot light from his party and the opposing party put on him without having anything with a shred of credibility come to light to prove that the notion is true...

    ....but that he goes ahead and just says it to a random Egyptian politician?

    Wonderful. Do you have an ebay account. I have this great piece of Florida real estate for you that I'd love to sell you for a bargain price.

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    AH yes, the usual Truther method. Don't actually accuse, but make sure you get those "what if" rants in.
    If you had more of a rebuttal I'd appreciate it... that's what happens when things are hidden and we can't discuss facts--- supposition by definition is a "what if". Is this where I claim the "ahh yes, the typical progressive talking points..." blabla? At least rebut with substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Funny you did not link to the Nile TV show that this happened on. No one seems to be able to find any evidence it happened. This would be like me claiming that Obama said he is the Antichrist on CBS, Saying that CBS exists is not evidence that Obama actually said anything like that.
    It's not for lack of looking - but if you find it and post it I'm sure there will then be the standard whining of the "translation", context, misinterpretation and "Obama didn't mean it that way", not to mention the call of question into the agenda and seeded conspiracy theories of Israel underminding Obama due to the snub last month by Obama at the White House. Did I miss anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Faulty logic fails miserably on the internets.
    So does not actually debating, blindly apologizing and making partisan excuses. Perhaps actually discussing the evidence that is available is beyond your scope due to your political beliefs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is still nothing more than some Israeli op-ed and blogs claiming this to be the case. The first report of it was a blog, and nothing since has offered an actual link to his actual words, or to the show itself. Even if it was said, that still leaves many layers of possible misunderstanding or lying that have nothing to do with Obama.
    There we go... they're lying, or it was a misinterpretation. A faux pas, fault in wording or translation...

    When you find the facts that it's a lie or misinterpretation, let me know. Until then, I'll stay neutral instead of blindly believing the quote is true. A position you may want to adopt instead of putting up the defensive walls of excuses.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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