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Thread: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

  1. #111
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    And what, pray tell do THESE statements have to do with Christian Fundamentalism? Please explain? Do you have any understanding of the Christian Fundamentalist Movement? Where it started? (Niagara Bible Conference) When it started? Why it started? What the principles are behind it? Obviously not, or you would not have posted such and ignorant and sterotypical statement.
    Fundies believe:

    • The Bible is the literal word of some hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky (proven wrong, by the way; the bible was written by all sorts of human beings LONG after the fact, for political purposes), and that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness.
    • A woman who never had sex gave birth (impossible in 5 BC), and the father was some hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky.
    • That this hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky had his own half-human son murdered to take away the sins of the world and every human in it. (And let's don't ignore the fact that this mystery ghost broke his own commandment to do it. )
    • That a man who had been dead for three days suddenly came to life again, turned into ghost junior, and floated up to heaven to hang out with ghost senior, the guy who had him put to death.
    • That ghost junior is gonna come back to Earth in flesh and blood, and **** up everyone who doesn't swallow his and his ghost-daddy's hogwash.


    Besides these doctrines, christian fundamentalism is also marked by far-right/conservative social stances, and criticism of liberal social and political policies, for example: legalized abortion, evolution taught in schools, and marriage for gays/lesbians. You're a fool if you're trying to pretend that Bush hasn't espoused conservative social stances his whole life, and hasn't loudly criticized liberal social and political policies.

    Anybody who believes the garbage above (AND who believes that "god talks through me and wants me to run for president" SRSLY, George?!?) is a fundie, according to all the definitions of "fundamental christian" that I've come across.

    I recognize that fundies feel differently, and of course, they can believe anything they want.

    But I don't have to buy into their insanity.

  2. #112
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    Fundies believe:

    • The Bible is the literal word of some hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky (proven wrong, by the way; the bible was written by all sorts of human beings LONG after the fact, for political purposes), and that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness.
    • A woman who never had sex gave birth (impossible in 5 BC), and the father was some hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky.
    • That this hard-assed mystery ghost in the sky had his own half-human son murdered to take away the sins of the world and every human in it. (And let's don't ignore the fact that this mystery ghost broke his own commandment to do it. )
    • That a man who had been dead for three days suddenly came to life again, turned into ghost junior, and floated up to heaven to hang out with ghost senior, the guy who had him put to death.
    • That ghost junior is gonna come back to Earth in flesh and blood, and **** up everyone who doesn't swallow his and his ghost-daddy's hogwash.


    Besides these doctrines, christian fundamentalism is also marked by far-right/conservative social stances, and criticism of liberal social and political policies, for example: legalized abortion, evolution taught in schools, and marriage for gays/lesbians. You're a fool if you're trying to pretend that Bush hasn't espoused conservative social stances his whole life, and hasn't loudly criticized liberal social and political policies.

    Anybody who believes the garbage above (AND who believes that "god talks through me and wants me to run for president" SRSLY, George?!?) is a fundie, according to all the definitions of "fundamental christian" that I've come across.

    I recognize that fundies feel differently, and of course, they can believe anything they want.

    But I don't have to buy into their insanity.
    I like how you threw in the statement in parentheses
    (AND who believes that "god talks through me and wants me to run for president" SRSLY, George?!?)
    Your own little fallacious addition to your twisted version of Christian Fundamentalist positions. Fact is, Christian fundamentalism says NOTHING about claims of God guiding someone spiritually or speaking through them spiritually. Your quotes from Bush prove NOTHING, ZILCH. You don't have a leg to stand on here. If what you're saying is true (and of course it is not) then practically EVERY theistic religion is fundamentalist in nature because nearly all of them provide for some mode through which the deity communes with the believers. Your argument is absurd.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  3. #113
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    If what you're saying is true (and of course it is not)
    No. It's 100% true. I challenge you to find a definition of "christian fundamentalist" that doesn't include the following:

    * Inerrancy of the scriptures
    * The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus
    * The doctrine of substitutionary atonement by god's grace and through human faith
    * The bodily resurrection of Jesus
    * Christ's second coming

    Go ahead. We'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    then practically EVERY theistic religion is fundamentalist in nature because nearly all of them provide for some mode through which the deity communes with the believers. Your argument is absurd.
    Ok then. I'll agree with you. EVERYONE who believes in [insert choice of god/gods here] is a fundie.


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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Christian fundamentalism was a POLITICAL MOVEMENT within the Protestant Church which began around 1895 to combat the ever-increasing popularity of secular teaching in the hard sciences and social sciences. I never claimed to be associated with this movement and do not necessarily support this approach by the Church. For you to make the claim that George W. Bush was a Fundamentalist Christian, means that you are claiming that he subscribed/subscribes to the principles behind it. To strengthen your claim, you used several quotes from Bush regarding his belief that God guided him or "spoke" to him. This IN NO WAY relates to the Christian Fundamentalist Movement - this is simply Christian Doctrine that ALL true Christians must believe (or they're not really Christians).

    Here, educate yourself :
    What is a fundamentalist Christian?
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 06-14-10 at 07:30 PM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post


    Ok then. I'll agree with you. EVERYONE who believes in [insert choice of god/gods here] is a fundie.

    Ok, then your lack of understanding obviously knows no bounds, and we are done here.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  6. #116
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    -- apparently, it would bother people who believe Obama is a Muslim much more if he were, than it would bother people who don't believe it, even if it was true.)
    I honestly don't care what religion he is, but if this story true, it just confirms that he is a liar, and a liar for political motives at that. That puts him somewhere at the level of pond scum to me. If one can't be honest about themselves, then they either have no character or they are delusional. Neither one is a positive trait imo. If a person isn't willing to risk their political aspirations to be open and honest, then he's not worth my admiration.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i heard the New Zealand member for bovine brothels said Obama is a Zoroastrianist
    Can't be. The Zoroastrians held a really high regard for integrity. It's really not too bad as religions go.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Christian fundamentalism was a POLITICAL MOVEMENT within the Protestant Church which began around 1895 to combat the ever-increasing popularity of secular teaching in the hard sciences and social sciences. I never claimed to be associated with this movement and do not necessarily support this approach by the Church. For you to make the claim that George W. Bush was a Fundamentalist Christian, means that you are claiming that he subscribed/subscribes to the principles behind it. To strengthen your claim, you used several quotes from Bush regarding his belief that God guided him or "spoke" to him. This IN NO WAY relates to the Christian Fundamentalist Movement - this is simply Christian Doctrine that ALL true Christians must believe (or they're not really Christians).

    Here, educate yourself :
    What is a fundamentalist Christian?
    *snort!*

    From your link:
    From the Christian perspective, fundamentalist has traditionally referred to any follower of Christ who believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and who believes in its literal interpretation and fundamental teachings. The fundamental Christian believes in the experience of the "new birth" which occurs when faith is placed in Christ as Savior and Lord.


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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Ok, then your lack of understanding obviously knows no bounds, and we are done here.
    Oh, I understand completely dear. I was raised surrounded by the hypocritical indoctrination of the Catholic Church; baptized, catechismized, first communionized. I had it all crammed down my neck by the "good" religious people who STILL think the church can do no wrong.

    But I grew up and recognized rather quickly that all organized religion is a crock and a rip-off.

    But hey, whatever nutty dogma floats yer boat.

  10. #120
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    Re: Egyptian minister: Obama told me he is a Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    *snort!*

    From your link:

    From the Christian perspective, fundamentalist has traditionally referred to any follower of Christ who believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and who believes in its literal interpretation and fundamental teachings. The fundamental Christian believes in the experience of the "new birth" which occurs when faith is placed in Christ as Savior and Lord.
    Ok, so how does this specific quote from my link, IN ANY WAY, relate to George W. Bush Being guided by or "spoken to" by GOD? I do not disagree with my own source or I wouldn't have used it. My argument IS NOT the DEFINITION of a Christian Fundamentalist, I know what one is; it IS based on your fallacious statement that GWB is a "Fundie" based his comments that he "communed" with GOD. Your whole position is based on False Logic.
    1. George W. Bush claimed he communes spiritually with God.
    2. Christian Fundamentalists believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.
    3. Based on statement #2, it is obvious that at least some Christian Fundamentalists believe that they commune spiritually with God. (Can we safely assume that they ALL do?.....I dont think so)
    4. Therefore, George W. Bush MUST be a Christian Fundamentalist. (It just couldn't be possible that ANYONE who IS NOT a Christian Fundamentalist believes that God communes with them.......right?)


    (AND who believes that "god talks through me and wants me to run for president" SRSLY, George?!?)
    So, what have you proven based on your original statement? Nothing, except that George Bush claims God speaks to him and guides him spiritually. You still have not, nor will you ever be able to use those quotes of his to prove that he is a Christian Fundamentalist. He may very well be, but not simply based on those quotes. Did he ever publicly come out and verify that he believed in and strongly stood by the FIVE BASIC tenets of Christian Fundamentalism? If, so, then you may have a case; but until you find these quotes you are simply passing gas into the wind. LOL :
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 06-14-10 at 09:16 PM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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