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Thread: Health law could ban low-cost plans

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Of course people are going to line up for **** they THINK they're getting for free. (or stuff that other people are paying for) This surprises you? This proves anything? What does it prove besides people always want something for nothing and are quite willing to take advantage of others to get what they want for as cheaply as they can get it?
    It wasn't just the linning up. It was the fact there was REAL need there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yup, compare those costs to the cost of any surgery in a hospital.

    Hell, it'll cost you 1000k just for the nurse to shave the area you're going to have an incision in for surgery in a hospital.

    So yeah, it IS much more affordable. The costs for elective surgeries and procedures continually DROP while the technology continually advances. This cannot be denied. And the reason why is because insurance is not involved and the govt has minimal involvement.

    I can go have laser hair removal for $100. WTF can you get in a hospital for $100? An aspirin?
    Kind of like saying a motor scooter is cheaper than a BMW. Duh. But not affordable.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It wasn't just the linning up. It was the fact there was REAL need there.
    Which is exactly why we should help drop the healthcare costs by getting rid of the two goliaths that continually drive costs UP.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Kind of like saying a motor scooter is cheaper than a BMW. Duh. But not affordable.
    Yes, it is. I think most people would agree that $5000 is much more affordable than $20000. And if we can drop the costs that much, it would be a win-win for everyone. In order to do that, though, we need to get rid of the cause of the high costs, which is insurance and govt, along with malpractice bull****.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yes, it is. I think most people would agree that $5000 is much more affordable than $20000. And if we can drop the costs that much, it would be a win-win for everyone. In order to do that, though, we need to get rid of the cause of the high costs, which is insurance and govt, along with malpractice bull****.
    Just as most would say a scooter is more affordable than luxury BMW. But they are not comparable. Your procedures are done out patient. Compare it with other outpatient procedures done that insurance does cover:

    The average endoscopy cost in United States can vary widely based on type of endoscopy that is being performed and if any samples or biopsies are sent to pathology for analysis. For this procedure, the fees charged by the facility can exceed the fees charged by the physician. In New York for example, the hospital may charge $2,000 for an endoscopy but the physician may only charge $700. If a tissue sample is taken and sent to pathology, the overall endoscopy cost can increase from $200 to $800 depending on the tests being done on the tissue.

    Surgery.com - The Cost of Endoscopy


    Comparing the two scooters, which is cheaper?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Just as most would say a scooter is more affordable than luxury BMW. But they are not comparable. Your procedures are done out patient. Compare it with other outpatient procedures done that insurance does cover:

    The average endoscopy cost in United States can vary widely based on type of endoscopy that is being performed and if any samples or biopsies are sent to pathology for analysis. For this procedure, the fees charged by the facility can exceed the fees charged by the physician. In New York for example, the hospital may charge $2,000 for an endoscopy but the physician may only charge $700. If a tissue sample is taken and sent to pathology, the overall endoscopy cost can increase from $200 to $800 depending on the tests being done on the tissue.

    Surgery.com - The Cost of Endoscopy


    Comparing the two scooters, which is cheaper?
    Hospitals have many outpatient procedures.

    Fact is, you can't deny that competition drives down the costs in the elective surgeries and procedures market. The costs for elective procedures have not skyrocketed like other costs have. And the technology only continues to advance, making the procedures more efficient and effective. That same competition would drive down costs in all other segments save ERs. Hospitals charge 500x what things actually cost and the reasons are govt, insurance, and malpractice bull****. We can remove one, greatly limit another, and reform the third.

    I don't know why people think that increasing that which broke the system to begin with is what will fix it. It's absolutely insane. Govt and insurance is what caused the problems to begin with and what's peoples answer to that? MORE govt and insurance. Absolutely, without a doubt, insanity.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Hospitals have many outpatient procedures.

    Fact is, you can't deny that competition drives down the costs in the elective surgeries and procedures market. The costs for elective procedures have not skyrocketed like other costs have. And the technology only continues to advance, making the procedures more efficient and effective. That same competition would drive down costs in all other segments save ERs. Hospitals charge 500x what things actually cost and the reasons are govt, insurance, and malpractice bull****. We can remove one, greatly limit another, and reform the third.

    I don't know why people think that increasing that which broke the system to begin with is what will fix it. It's absolutely insane. Govt and insurance is what caused the problems to begin with and what's peoples answer to that? MORE govt and insurance. Absolutely, without a doubt, insanity.
    I can argue it. Competition for the most part has little to nothing to do with it. If I can't afford a car, I buy a scooter. No fuss. If my daughter needs a kidney, how's my bargaining power? If I have cancer, do I have the same barganing position that the person wanting larger breasts has?

    Again, you compare different things. And even if a triple by pass droped some in cost, would it ever drop enough to be affordable for all? So, you're still left with denying life saving care to those who need it, and if you don't, that cost will be passed on to everyone else. You're solition simply fails to address the larger problem, providing adequate care and protection for the most people, let alone everyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can argue it. Competition for the most part has little to nothing to do with it. If I can't afford a car, I buy a scooter. No fuss. If my daughter needs a kidney, how's my bargaining power? If I have cancer, do I have the same barganing position that the person wanting larger breasts has?
    Yup. There's more than one hospital, and more than one surgeon.

    Again, you compare different things. And even if a triple by pass droped some in cost, would it ever drop enough to be affordable for all? So, you're still left with denying life saving care to those who need it, and if you don't, that cost will be passed on to everyone else. You're solition simply fails to address the larger problem, providing adequate care and protection for the most people, let alone everyone.
    Adequate care and protection need not be provided to anyone. It just needs to be available to everyone, and it is.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Yup. There's more than one hospital, and more than one surgeon.



    Adequate care and protection need not be provided to anyone. It just needs to be available to everyone, and it is.
    And you'll find their prices are about the same. All too much for the vast majority. (not to mention most can't search too far for a hospital)

    Whether it needs to be may well be subjective, but we've already said we won't turn people away. As long as that is true, people who can't pay will be treated and that cost will be passed on.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you'll find their prices are about the same. All too much for the vast majority. (not to mention most can't search too far for a hospital)
    Yes, they are NOW. Jesus christ, haven't you been reading? I'm talking about promoting competition, putting the patient and doctors back in charge of healthcare instead of insurance companies and the government.

    Whether it needs to be may well be subjective, but we've already said we won't turn people away. As long as that is true, people who can't pay will be treated and that cost will be passed on.
    Doctors can turn people away, so can hosptials. They just can't turn away people in the ER. What they can do, however, and what they DO do, is give limited treatment to non-emergency patients. Sure, they can't turn them away, but they also aren't required to do anything specific. They are only required to take lifesaving measures. And the majority of folks in an ER don't require any life saving measures.

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