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Thread: Health law could ban low-cost plans

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    And yet it works just like I said for an entire section of the healthcare market. Weird, huh? Technology advances and competition drives costs down.
    No, it really doesn't. There are no cheap MRI machines, no inexpensive cancer treatments or organ transplants, nothing remotely like them. Heck, removing a toe nail, which I pay myself, cost in excess of $70 dollars. You must be talking about a part of the market that really doesn't cost much and think it shows the way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it really doesn't. There are no cheap MRI machines, no inexpensive cancer treatments or organ transplants, nothing remotely like them. Heck, removing a toe nail, which I pay myself, cost in excess of $70 dollars. You must be talking about a part of the market that really doesn't cost much and think it shows the way.
    What you are talking about are things that insurance and government is largely involved in. What I stated was that the elective healthcare market, things that insurance does NOT cover and thus is not involved in, have continual advances in technology and continual decreases in pricing due to direct competition.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    What you are talking about are things that insurance and government is largely involved in. What I stated was that the elective healthcare market, things that insurance does NOT cover and thus is not involved in, have continual advances in technology and continual decreases in pricing due to direct competition.
    We buy individual DVD players and computers. MRI machines are not purchased that way, and cost quite a bit more. How many can you put in a market? As I recall, we had quite a bit of doctors buying their own at one point. Recall how that worked out?

    Again, this isn't new. Back before insurance, who got quality care?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We buy individual DVD players and computers. MRI machines are not purchased that way, and cost quite a bit more. How many can you put in a market? As I recall, we had quite a bit of doctors buying their own at one point. Recall how that worked out?
    What about the equipment necessary for elective surgeries? You don't think those are expensive?

    Again, this isn't new. Back before insurance, who got quality care?
    I don't have insurance. I've always gotten quality care. Besides, I don't expect to receive that which I cannot pay for. And if I can't afford a doctor's services, then I have no "right" to said doctor's services.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    What about the equipment necessary for elective surgeries? You don't think those are expensive?


    I don't have insurance. I've always gotten quality care. Besides, I don't expect to receive that which I cannot pay for. And if I can't afford a doctor's services, then I have no "right" to said doctor's services.
    Very few people get elective surgery. Why, because it costs a lot, too much. Some even get it don't pay.

    And what you expect is not reality. You get hurt bad enough, ill enough, and you will be treated and others will pay. That's what happens in this country.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Very few people get elective surgery. Why, because it costs a lot, too much. Some even get it don't pay.
    WTF are you talking about? The market is HUGE. Lasik, breast reductions and implants, face lifts, lipo, skin lightening, hair removal, etc, etc, etc. The prices continue to drop due to competition and the technology continues to advance.

    And what you expect is not reality. You get hurt bad enough, ill enough, and you will be treated and others will pay. That's what happens in this country.
    Others will pay only if you're a dick don't pay your bills.

    And, it wouldn't be so expensive if we got insurance and govt out of it, kind of like the elective market.

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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    WTF are you talking about? The market is HUGE. Lasik, breast reductions and implants, face lifts, lipo, skin lightening, hair removal, etc, etc, etc. The prices continue to drop due to competition and the technology continues to advance.


    Others will pay only if you're a dick don't pay your bills.

    And, it wouldn't be so expensive if we got insurance and govt out of it, kind of like the elective market.
    Most people don't have those things. See the free clinic that was put forth in LA and how many shoed up for simple glasses and dental work. Do we have people with dispossable income? Sure, but many, many people simply can't afford needed health care let alone elective surgeries. Your examples are simply examples of something working at another income level and not overall.

    Removing insurance would not solve the problem.


    BTW, let's look at cost:

    Average LASIK Costs

    A report commissioned by AllAboutVision.com from a leading industry analyst was based on results of a survey of refractive surgeons conducted during the first quarter of 2010. Average LASIK costs were:

    * $2,150 for all laser-based vision correction procedures (including LASIK) in which a single price is quoted.
    * $1,580 for non-customized LASIK using a bladed instrument (microkeratome) and excimer lasers that are not guided by wavefront analysis.
    * $2,170 for wavefront-guided LASIK using a laser-created flap.
    Cost of LASIK Eye Surgery (Updated June 2010) - AllAboutVision.com



    Breast Augmentation
    Average Costs



    BREAST AUGMENTATION*
    Cost Range: $5,000-$10,000

    Average Total Cost : $7,100
    Surgeons fee: $4,000
    Anesthesiologist: $800
    Facility fee: $1,000
    Implant fee: $1,300

    RELATED FEES**
    Breast augmentation (saline) $3,600
    Breast augmentation (silicone) $4,600
    Breast implant removal (Breast Augmentation patients only) $2,319
    Breast lifts $4,220

    Average Costs and Prices of Breast Implants

    Average face lift prices according to technique are as follows:

    Standard face lift: $6,000-$15,000, average $8,000

    Mid face lift: $4,000-$10,000, average $7,000

    Lower face lift: $4,000-$10,000, average $7,000

    Mini (weekend) face lift: $3,500-$6,500, average $5,000

    Threadlift face lift: $2,000-$6000, average $4000

    Face Lift Prices

    Yeah, affordable.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #68
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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Oh, add to what I said above:

    Thousands Line Up for Promise of Free Health Care

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/13clinic.html

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #69
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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Most people don't have those things. See the free clinic that was put forth in LA and how many shoed up for simple glasses and dental work. Do we have people with dispossable income? Sure, but many, many people simply can't afford needed health care let alone elective surgeries. Your examples are simply examples of something working at another income level and not overall.

    Removing insurance would not solve the problem.


    BTW, let's look at cost:

    Average LASIK Costs

    A report commissioned by AllAboutVision.com from a leading industry analyst was based on results of a survey of refractive surgeons conducted during the first quarter of 2010. Average LASIK costs were:

    * $2,150 for all laser-based vision correction procedures (including LASIK) in which a single price is quoted.
    * $1,580 for non-customized LASIK using a bladed instrument (microkeratome) and excimer lasers that are not guided by wavefront analysis.
    * $2,170 for wavefront-guided LASIK using a laser-created flap.
    Cost of LASIK Eye Surgery (Updated June 2010) - AllAboutVision.com



    Breast Augmentation
    Average Costs



    BREAST AUGMENTATION*
    Cost Range: $5,000-$10,000

    Average Total Cost : $7,100
    Surgeons fee: $4,000
    Anesthesiologist: $800
    Facility fee: $1,000
    Implant fee: $1,300

    RELATED FEES**
    Breast augmentation (saline) $3,600
    Breast augmentation (silicone) $4,600
    Breast implant removal (Breast Augmentation patients only) $2,319
    Breast lifts $4,220

    Average Costs and Prices of Breast Implants

    Average face lift prices according to technique are as follows:

    Standard face lift: $6,000-$15,000, average $8,000

    Mid face lift: $4,000-$10,000, average $7,000

    Lower face lift: $4,000-$10,000, average $7,000

    Mini (weekend) face lift: $3,500-$6,500, average $5,000

    Threadlift face lift: $2,000-$6000, average $4000

    Face Lift Prices

    Yeah, affordable.
    Yup, compare those costs to the cost of any surgery in a hospital.

    Hell, it'll cost you 1000k just for the nurse to shave the area you're going to have an incision in for surgery in a hospital.

    So yeah, it IS much more affordable. The costs for elective surgeries and procedures continually DROP while the technology continually advances. This cannot be denied. And the reason why is because insurance is not involved and the govt has minimal involvement.

    I can go have laser hair removal for $100. WTF can you get in a hospital for $100? An aspirin?

  10. #70
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    Re: Health law could ban low-cost plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Oh, add to what I said above:

    Thousands Line Up for Promise of Free Health Care

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/health/13clinic.html
    Of course people are going to line up for **** they THINK they're getting for free. (or stuff that other people are paying for) This surprises you? This proves anything? What does it prove besides people always want something for nothing and are quite willing to take advantage of others to get what they want for as cheaply as they can get it?

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