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Obama Seeking "Ass To Kick" Over Oil Spill

Well, you need to understand that Americans are, by and large, pretty superficial. It's a sad side effect of prosperity and it's very shallow, but image seems to be paramount with American presidents. This drastically cuts our chances of getting a really decent president who possesses real courage and character.

Btw, I love your avatar.

We already got one and we need to make sure we keep him:)
 
Zimmer, nobody has to try to make Bush look like a moron -he does a fine job of that all by himself. lol

I find your bashing of Germans closedminded and very distasteful.
 
You know, the first thought I had when I read the title of this thread was "Damn, the Republicans are right. Obama CAN'T find his ass with both hands". :mrgreen:
 
If so I can understand why you are fully in the dark. Americans I do not undertand, but the Germans have one of the worst press corps (or as Obama says corpse) in the world. Their citizens are a mass of ignorance thanks to the one sewer pipe feeding the public. It drips a toxic sludge of leftist crap... once in a while you get some truth, but so much waste is fed to the masses I fear for their mental health.

Right, like we're all that much better. 95% of what we've come to call the mainstream media is owned by all of seven corporations, and the main thrust is in the direction of selling advertising and advancing an agenda.

Even Wikipedia gets the history correctly... but the masses cling to the crap fed by the propagandists.

Well, if by "correct" you mean "accepting what you're told," then yeah, I guess it is. :lol:

When it comes to any branch of the military, the President is where the buck stops. He flew in on a fighter jet, landed on the deck of a Navy ship, and gave a grandoise speech which amounted to little but political posturing in front of a banner which any reasonable person would read as standing in celebration of the point he was making.

Even if was the Navy's idea, you don't blame it on the Navy. Your job is to tell the Navy what to do, so there goes your plausible deniability. Furthermore, you don't take credit for the stunt if it works and then pawn off the blame if it doesn't. If you're as straight a shooter as Bush always claimed, you take the hit, laugh at yourself, and move on.

Also, why the devil was that banner flying, if in fact it was flying to celebrate a successful deployment, if the damn ship was 30 miles off the coast? Couldn't they at least until the completely and totally unrelated Presidential appearance was televised before they hung it up?

Since when did the Navy need 30 miles of head-start to get some rigging strapped? :lol:

This false reporting of the Mission Accomplished banner was a turning point at home. It was the start of treasonous Democrats starting to attack the troops and our president. It got the idiocy ball rolling, emboldened our enemies, and raised the cost of American treasure and blood.

Ah yes, the fanatic's favorite clarion call -- your argument isn't just wrong, it's killing people and costing us money!

The president went to honor the men and women for a tough haul, and the press and leftists could care less about the facts... they used it as a baton.

You mean they used it the same way Bush intended to use that visual to buttress his own goals? Shocking.

I sense you're going to learn a lot at DP. Welcome.

You've got an awfully funny way of welcoming people. When you do it in person do you actually spit in the other person's face, or is it just that you're braver behind a computer than in real life? :lol:
 
You mein freund, have made my point about the typical German.

What point was that, exactly? What point was German Dude supposed to absorb in between your slander of his person and his country?

If someone spoke that way about the United States, you'd write them off as an ignorant fool and move on.

Why are you expecting anyone else to do any different?
 
Germans are an ill informed flock. It's because your press keeps you nice and ignorant.

An American accusing a whole other society of ignorance -- that's hilarious.

How many alarmingly craptacular survey and test results does our public education system have to produce, how far down the educational ladder do we have to fall in comparison to other nations, how many Americans have to say "no, I have no idea where that country is" on a survey before you figure out that no citizen of the United States has any grounds upon which to accuse a whole other society of ignorance?

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most of us couldn't name the principle figures in the German government without using Google, much less the structure of that government or its foundational documents, and yet the same is most likely not true of most Germans.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that anybody who disagrees with you is somehow inferior, ill-informed, or mentally infirm. I'm sure it must be a very comforting mantra.
 
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Just want to step in and say no harm was done, and I have no ill feelings. Yes, I think Zimmer's statements were rather ignorant and rude, but he's at least right when he says this kind of thing occurs on both sides of the ocean. I'm sure there are pretty ignorant and rude Germans too, who'd say similar things about the US.

Anyway, I hope after this has settled, we can have a good debate. All nice and fun, and civil.
 
I can appreciate where you're coming from, German guy. You've made your position very clear.

It's just that when somebody pisses me off, I can't shut up. :lol:
 
An American accusing a whole other society of ignorance -- that's hilarious.

How many alarmingly craptacular survey and test results does our public education system have to produce, how far down the educational ladder do we have to fall in comparison to other nations, how many Americans have to say "no, I have no idea where that country is" on a survey before you figure out that no citizen of the United States has any grounds upon which to accuse a whole other society of ignorance?

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most of us couldn't name the principle figures in the German government without using Google, much less the structure of that government or its foundational documents, and yet the same is most likely not true of most Germans.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that anybody who disagrees with you is somehow inferior, ill-informed, or mentally infirm. I'm sure it must be a very comforting mantra.

Most couldn't tell who the key players are, but I can tell you who they are, what party, their general platform, and their modern history. I'm even well enough versed to be able to rattle on about regional politics. Even obscure facts such as the state parliament in Schleswig-Holstein allowing the Danish based party to sit members that won seats even if they don't crack the 5% threshold.

In fact, I would venture I know German politics, the German Press and Germany far better than most Germans.

.
 
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Most couldn't tell who the key players are, but I can tell you who they are, what party, their general platform, and their modern history. I'm even well enough versed to be able to rattle on about regional politics. Even obscure facts such as the state parliament in Schleswig-Holstein allowing the Danish based party to sit members that won seats even if they don't crack the 5% threshold.

In fact, I would venture I know German politics, the German Press and Germany far better than most Germans.

Well, that's just ducky. Most of your countrymen are not in the same position.

Ergo, accusing the German people of ignorance when we've got that wholesale here at home makes you look like a hypocrite and a moron.
 
Well, that's just ducky. Most of your countrymen are not in the same position.

Ergo, accusing the German people of ignorance when we've got that wholesale here at home makes you look like a hypocrite and a moron.
There are more outlets and points of view to be had in the States, hence the sewer pipe analogy for the German press. One I'll stick by.

Some may say the press is reflecting the view of the people, but that is not what the press should do. That isn't their role. They should report facts and all sides of the story.
That's how you produce an informed, tolerant public. That is missing in Germany.

Jetzt zum Fussball.

.
 
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Okay, so I see you now understand it was silly to accuse the German people of ignorance when we've got so much of it here it at home.
 
There are more outlets and points of view to be had in the States, hence the sewer pipe analogy for the German press. One I'll stick by.

Some may say the press is reflecting the view of the people, but that is not what the press should do. That isn't their role. They should report facts and all sides of the story.
That's how you produce an informed, tolerant public. That is missing in Germany.

Jetzt zum Fussball.

.

It's ironic that you would name FOX News of all sources as a good example for balanced quality media in the US. (Assuming you are not joking here -- although I'm inclined to believe you are, because nobody with a clear mind could possible be serious about it.)

I think there is really not much I need to add, such a statement speaks volumes.
 
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. . . plus, whatever happened to the hopeless liberal bias of the media?

I guess it vanished when it came time to spank on Germany.
 
An American accusing a whole other society of ignorance -- that's hilarious.

How many alarmingly craptacular survey and test results does our public education system have to produce, how far down the educational ladder do we have to fall in comparison to other nations, how many Americans have to say "no, I have no idea where that country is" on a survey before you figure out that no citizen of the United States has any grounds upon which to accuse a whole other society of ignorance?

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most of us couldn't name the principle figures in the German government without using Google, much less the structure of that government or its foundational documents, and yet the same is most likely not true of most Germans.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that anybody who disagrees with you is somehow inferior, ill-informed, or mentally infirm. I'm sure it must be a very comforting mantra.

Are you seriously defending the same nation that brought us The Holocaust and the Berlin Wall? Really?!?
 
Are you seriously defending the same nation that brought us The Holocaust and the Berlin Wall? Really?!?

Does that mean now that an argument does not have merit because of its logical and factual soundness, but because of who advances it (or his nationality)?

You know, if you were personally responsible for slavery, genocide on native Americans and a few other things your nation did, I might be inclined to attack you for that. But since you are most likely not, I don't see the point in it.

If you want to engage in a nationalistic dick-size-competition, maybe you should start and show what you got. I'm not ready for that yet, though, because I have drunken way too few tonight and need to tank up some more before I'm down to that level.
 
I'd be willing to hazard a guess that most of us couldn't name the principle figures in the German government without using Google, much less the structure of that government or its foundational documents, and yet the same is most likely not true of most Germans.

This doesn't work. It's more akin to asking a German to name the state officials of Tennessee. Ok, a bigger more influential state but you get the point.


Aren't we supposed to know the EU people? And what about the UN people? We need know those too, right? Europeans have more levels of government per square foot than we can possibly be expected to memorize. They're lucky we have any idea who's in charge over there. There's the short Frenchy (thank god he's not Italian), the dirty Spaniard, the pasty English dude, the goofy faced German chick... see? I'm educated.
 
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It's ironic that you would name FOX News of all sources as a good example for balanced quality media in the US. (Assuming you are not joking here -- although I'm inclined to believe you are, because nobody with a clear mind could possible be serious about it.)

I think there is really not much I need to add, such a statement speaks volumes.

I did not see Zimmer mention Fox News in his post... did I miss something?
 
I did not see Zimmer mention Fox News in his post... did I miss something?

In fact you did. Maybe Zimmer didn't mention it here, but I had a PM exchange with him, and I think I am not breaking his confidence by telling you he did at least mention it there.
 
Fox is more balanced than MSNBC, and slightly less so than CNN. Joy Behar does conversatives justice. Even if you don't like O'Reilly, he's legit. I prefer Stewart and Colbert but let's not pretend that Fox is the worst of US basic cable news. Stuff like Huffington Post, MoveOn, etc etc etc... are right out. Town Hall and Weekly Standard are probably as bad as Huffington most days, and there are a few other right-wing hack rags but I'm not familiar with them.

When it comes to radio, the libs have never managed a decent network thus the right dominates - badly. Newspaper, mostly lib but who reads them anyway.
 
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In fact you did. Maybe Zimmer didn't mention it here, but I had a PM exchange with him, and I think I am not breaking his confidence by telling you he did at least mention it there.

Good to know. Thanks.
 
Fox is more balanced than MSNBC, and slightly less so than CNN. Joy Behar does conversatives justice. Even if you don't like O'Reilly, he's legit. I prefer Stewart and Colbert but let's not pretend that Fox is the worst of US basic cable news. Stuff like Huffington Post, MoveOn, etc etc etc... are right out. Town Hall and Weekly Standard are probably as bad as Huffington most days, and there are a few other right-wing hack rags but I'm not familiar with them.

I think there is a difference between mainstream media outlets like MSNBC or FOX News, and very small publications, or even internet publications and blogs.
 
Are you seriously defending the same nation that brought us The Holocaust and the Berlin Wall? Really?!?

The Holocaust was over 6 decades ago. I'm pretty sure that the Germany of today is not the Germany of the 1930s.

Besides, six decades ago, there were lots of places in the United States where being both black and out after sundown earned you a severe beating -- or worse. We're not ones to throw stones about recent history.

So far as it goes with the Berlin Wall, that wasn't Germany's fault so much as it was a consequence of the fact that the United States and Russia divided the nation of Germany between themselves.

Even were I wrong about all that, which I most definitely am not, that doesn't change the fact that what I said earlier is also right, and that you apparently are unable to address my argument on its own merit -- you're forced to set yourself up a straw man.

Well, good luck with that sucker, but it won't keep the rooks out of the corn. :lol:
 
This doesn't work. It's more akin to asking a German to name the state officials of Tennessee. Ok, a bigger more influential state but you get the point.

I see your point, but you're wrong. Germany is not a state in the sense that Tennessee is a state; it is a sovereign nation.

Aren't we supposed to know the EU people? And what about the UN people? We need know those too, right? Europeans have more levels of government per square foot than we can possibly be expected to memorize. They're lucky we have any idea who's in charge over there. There's the short Frenchy (thank god he's not Italian), the dirty Spaniard, the pasty English dude, the goofy faced German chick... see? I'm educated.

The UN does not make the real decisions. It provides a platform upon which sovereign nations can conduct international politics. That's it. The EU has a little more bite than the UN because

The EU, while is certainly has more bite to it than the UN, does not in any way require member states to sacrifice their sovereignty. As such, you can't compare the EU to the United States. If Greece decided to leave the EU, it wouldn't result in civil war.

Ultimately, if you want to do business with the nations which occupy the European continent and hold membership in the EU, you deal with them individually, unless your business is of such a scope as to impact multiple member states.

That means the officers, structures, and foundational documents are far more important than those of the EU when it comes to being aware of who the movers and shakers in the world are.
 
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