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Thread: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I just saw this post. Incredible.
    Yeah, I though the posting was ridiculous, too.

    The extent people will go to in order to pursue their anti-Israel agenda is amazing, isn't it?
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Well I was watching Flemish news (I'm trying to improve my Dutch ) and I think I did find evidence that the tape is a fake, and this really makes me feel very uncomfortable.

    First, listen to the Jpost tape, published on June 4

    YouTube - Flotilla Ship to Israeli Navy: "We're Helping Arabs Go Against the US, Don't Forget 9/11 Guys"

    it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade / Shut up, go back to Auschwitz"

    Now watch this Flemish newspaper from May 31. You'll see the actual scene filmed with the complete tape recording

    Videozone (on the right, clic on "Terzake 2010 - 31/05/10" and then "Israëlische commando's enteren vloot" Watch at roughly 1'10")

    it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade" and then hear no "go back to Auschitz", in fact no one responds and the IDF soldier keeps on talking, he adds "the region of Gaza has been..."

    Since it is filmed, it is impossible that the Flemish video is a fake.
    There is something wrong with the script on that page. You can't scroll down to see a 31/05/10 option.

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    But two recordings are different, one of them must be a fake.
    See my post above. Two different warnings are required by Maritime Law. It is possible that both recordings are correct.

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    But two recordings are different, one of them must be a fake.

    What is your source for the "go back to auschwitz" comment?
    Those are two recordings of two different transmissions bub.
    The IDF has stated that when it has released this audio recording, it's in Ido's post in the ME forum, and I believe I've referred to it in one of my previous posts in this thread.
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    There is something wrong with the script on that page. You can't scroll down to see a 31/05/10 option.
    Well at a point the show the same video that has been posted by Degreez, which is the original one.

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Well OK I saw it but the fact that the jpost uses edited material makes me very skeptical.

    I've got a question: when was the "go back to auschwitz" thing posted? It looks like all the recordings with this comment (the edited one used by the jpost and the "unedited" one posted on youtube) appeared on June 4. That's a bit strange because the unedited video showing the same warnings were in newspapers 5 days earlier, on may 31.

    Could you find a source, from may 31 or june 1, that shows the "go back to auschwitz" comment?

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I just saw this post. Incredible.
    Here is my concern as I said earlier quote from degreez quote
    "Thanks to Marian Houk (Marian Houk (Marianhouk) on Twitter), I have learned that the Israeli army originally uploaded a video in which the same naval officer in the video above has an innocuous conversation with a ship in which the only reply from the ship is 'Negative, Negative, our destination is Gaza,'" said Abunimah.
    Now, I listened to this on 31st April with picture of same men. This has totally disappeared from any of the tapes.

    Then there is this

    Freegaza - IDF Admits It Doctored the Audio Tapes

    My questioned remains unanswered. Why did the IDF on 31st May release a tape where the crew just said they were going on to Gaza as in the above quote and where is that conversation now.
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    freegaza.org? No possible bias/doctoring there lol.

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    freegaza.org? No possible bias/doctoring there lol.
    IDF clarifies: 'Go back to Auschwitz' recording edited, but authentic - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is actually a good example of the appeal to ignorance logical fallacy... working both ways. The fallacy states that you cannot assume something is true because it has not been proven false. Conversely, it also states that you cannot assume something is false just because it has not been proven true. In this case, there is evidence that the tape is authentic. Because of this, just saying, "it doesn't sound authentic to me" is a logical fallacy... unless it is backed you with some sort of evidence.
    But, we're not dealing in deductive reasoning here. Without corroboration of the evidence presented the ONLY thing you have is your own judgement as to how it sounds. Sure, as with any inductive reasoning, you might be wrong if you draw conclusions from your subjective perceptions. But, often the best strategy to evaluate a situation IS to employ induction. In fact, the vast majority of situations in the world require it: we would do VERY little at all if we didn't.

    That aside, it is perfectly legitimate to withhold acceptance of the authenticity of evidence. No fallacy required. It is absolutely legitimate to say, "I do not accept the authenticity of the recording". I wouldn't need to prove anything. This is, of course, different than saying "I hold the recording to be inauthentic", which would require proof. But, the difference is the key to understanding why the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim, which is: "The recording is authentic".

    As a result of withholding acceptance of the authenticity of the recording, one logically continues on with no additional sympathy for the Israeli position, which is the same effect as if the recording were proven inauthentic.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 06-06-10 at 11:12 AM.
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