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Thread: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

  1. #181
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's the partial quote from the woman that kills that theory (although they may have put that in to show that it was the flotilla in question that was beign addressed). The woman's comments are not anti-western nor are they antisemitic.
    No, her comments are neither.
    I've meant that they've cut her part short and have focused mainly on the anti-semitic and anti-western remarks, since that was the point of the recording.
    It is the partial inclusion that proves that they did leave more in than just the anti-western and antisemitic statements.
    The anti-western and anti-semitic statements are from the Mavi Marmara, not from this woman's ship.
    She was on board of one of the three small boats.
    I do not know, nor will I pretend to know why that was done or what benefit editing the audio was going to be.
    To cut things to the chase and present the anti-Semitic and anti-Western audio records.
    I do believe that releasing edited audio was a bad idea.
    I agree.
    Releasing the full audio, howeverk was a good idea. It should have been released in that fashio n to begin with, IMO.
    Again, I agree.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Whoever edited the audio tampered with it, yes. They very clearly took out more than just empty space and gibberish. Why did they do that? What purpose does it serve?

    How bout this. I'll use a post of yours as an example of what was done to the audio:



    These are your words "edited" to highlight particular parts of the "exchange". I hereby decree that everything I removes was unintelligible and dead air.

    We both know that this is not true. I clearly tampered with your post to show how it is tampering to take certain parts of it and change how they were released. I removed all context.

    I changed how things went down. That's what happened in that edited audio.

    BTW, the full text of your quote was



    I bolded the parts I included to show that I didn't change a single word of what you had written. i merely tampered with it.
    You didn't alter what I wrote, which would be tampering. You're caught looking the fool. Keep digging the hole or admit you are wrong. Since you will not admit that you are in error calling it "tampering" you'll merely provide us with entertaining reading as you flail trying to prove how "right" you are.

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  3. #183
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Explain to me why the woman's express claims to being a peaceful convoy were edited out, but part of her comments were included.

    And give up the strawmen, please.
    IT'S CALLED EDITING.

    Not TAMPERING.

    Tampering implies they ALTERED her comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Explain to me why they gave up the strawman.
    That's Tamping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Explain to me the woman's express claims to being a peaceful convoy were included.

    And give up, please.
    That's Editing.


    You're hung on that's woman's comments, as if they actually, really, mattered. They don't.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  4. #184
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm asserting they edited out more than just "useless stuff".
    What did you find in the unedited version that refutes the edited version?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  5. #185
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    No, her comments are neither.
    I've meant that they've cut her part short and have focused mainly on the anti-semitic and anti-western remarks, since that was the point of the recording.
    To me, that is "to interfere so as to weaken or change for the worse", which is webster's definition of tampering.

    There's little doubt that the editted version makes the exchange sound even worse than the unedited version.

    Does that mean the complete exchange wasn't bad as it was? No. It was still pretty frickin' bad.

    It just means that the editted version made it sound worse than it actually was by removing the things that were not as bad.



    The anti-western and anti-semitic statements are from the Mavi Marmara, not from this woman's ship.
    I wasn't sure on this due to it being an open channel and not knowing if these things can be clearly determined or not. But I admit to my ignorance on that kind of stuff.

    I see no reason to doubt that what you say is true, though. It's not a stretch to say that antisemitic and anti-western douchebags would be drawn to this kind of operation.

    To cut things to the chase and present the anti-Semitic and anti-Western audio records.
    I think it was a major error on someone's part to go about things this way. Clearly the IDF gave them ample warning of what would occur if they refused to comply. IMO, editing the audio in that fashion to focus on the fact that there were douchebags on board undermines the fact that teh complete audio shows:

    1. That yes, there were douchebags on board.
    2. That they failed to comply with the orders even knowing that the IDF would have an aggresive response if they failed to do so.

    1 coupled with 2 means that the IDF had every reason to suspect this ship might carry contraband, IMO, and boarding it was fully and completely justified.


    I would not have been convinced of this from the edited audio becasue it sounded like a very odd exchange to me. It caused my "WTF" radar to trigger.

    The full audio did convince me that the IDF acted correctly.

    I would be just as critical of the US if they released audio like this. I think it is detrimental to the cause of proving an action justified.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    What did you find in the unedited version that refutes the edited version?
    I found quite a bit in teh unedited audio that, to me, made the actions of the IDF fully justified.


    First, I state that the IDF would not be justified in boarding the ship(s) simply because someone on board is an antisemitic douchebag with a microphone.

    But the woman essentially states that they are flat out refusing to comply with orders and said that the IDF doesn't have the authority to sto pthem. The IDF guy responds (again) that failure to comply will have dire consequences.

    Regardless of the questions about the legality of the Israeli blockade (Thats' a separate issue to me), ignoring that order was stupidity of the highest order.

    It placed full responsibility for all of th edeaths on thiose who made the decision to refuse said order.

    If I start walking towards a cop with his gun out, and he says "Stop or I'll shoot" and I repsond with "You have no leagal authority to tell me to stop, so I'm going to continue walking. I'm unarmed and I don't want to hurt you" and I ocntinue walkign toward the cop, I would pretty much deserve to be shot.

    I don't care if the cop was legallly authorized to say that to me or not, the fact that I ignored the order means I'm an idiot.

    I think the editing was done to strike an emotional chord by implying that the antisemitism itself was a justification for the IDF boarding the ship.

    I think it was edited to make it seem as though there was little else said other than antisemitic remarks.

    I'm not sure why that decision was made, but I personally feel it was a terrible decision.

    Nothing refutes the fact that there were antisemitic remarks made, and I'm not trying to imply that there was.

    But tampering is not only done to make someone look bad, it can also be done to make things look "worse" in regards to certian things in order to make an emotional appeal.

    The logical appeal inherent in the unedited audio is far more effective in my opinion.
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    IT'S CALLED EDITING.

    Not TAMPERING.

    Tampering implies they ALTERED her comments.




    That's Tamping.



    That's Editing.


    You're hung on that's woman's comments, as if they actually, really, mattered. They don't.
    Tampering can be done through editing.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Agree with Tuck here. They should've just released the full audio first and if they wanted to do an edited version focusing on just the anti-west and anti-jew things stated they should've done that second and stated as such.

    Editing not just dead space but other comments gives a false impression that the majority or all of the conversation was simply anti-western and israeli speech causing one to infer a possible different view of the situation than one may have formed had they heard the unedited version in its entirity without selectively only showing the bad parts.

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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You didn't alter what I wrote, which would be tampering. You're caught looking the fool. Keep digging the hole or admit you are wrong. Since you will not admit that you are in error calling it "tampering" you'll merely provide us with entertaining reading as you flail trying to prove how "right" you are.

    I often admit to errors when someone proves I am in error. I did so as recently as yesterday and today.

    Can you show me that editing is mutually exclusive to tampering?
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    Re: Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

    Indeed, one could never tamper with the message of something through editing and presentation without actually physically having the person say things they didn't actually say. I mean, just look at these things you've said to Tucker with regards to your alls disagreement in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's okay, this way you're right
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    they "tampered" with the audio
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    they ALTERED her comments.

    That's Tamping.

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