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Thread: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Except that the Israelis are acting in self defense.
    That does not mean anything:

    about the invasion of Poland

    Following several German-staged incidents (like the Gleiwitz incident, a part of Operation Himmler), which German propaganda used as an excuse to claim that German forces were acting in self-defence, the first regular act of war took place on 1 September 1939, at 04:40, when the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) attacked the Polish town of Wieluń, destroying 75% of the city and killing close to 1,200 people, most of them civilians. This invasion subsequently began the Second World War.
    Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    No one says that Israel does not have the right to defend itself, people say that it should be done with proportionality



    One more problem is that, as several posters have said in this thread, criticism of Israel is too often dismissed as "anti-semitism". When people say that Belgian para-commandos should not have tortured a Somali kid on 1993 or that the same soldiers should have done something about the Rwandan genocide in 1994, or that there is a serious democratic deficit when all the Walloon parties team up, no one says that it is "anti-Belgianism".
    I want to talk about this chart briefly. I want to be fair here, and this chart is misleading. Israel has probably the most effective soldier for soldier fighting force in the world. Well trained, well organized, well equipped, well disciplined, and very very experienced. When they fight against Palestinian's, the death tolls are going to be very lopsided. This alone does not mean that Israel is doing something wrong. I suspect if you had similar charts for the death toll in Iraq during the gulf war(either really, the first or second), you would find similar totals, and I can promise you that the US did everything in it's power to not kill innocents, and even to not have to kill Iraqi soldiers if they did not have to.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    That does not mean anything:

    about the invasion of Poland



    Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians, so they could build their own country--not that they ever had one to begin with. Then, when the Pals got their own country, they turn around and declare war on Israel. So, yes, Israel is acting in self defense.

    Palestine the country didn't exist before the Israelis fought for and won their freedom in 1948.

    After what the Arabs have done to the Jews over the past few thousand years, I'm having a hard time summoning any sympathy for the Palestinians. Sorry.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I want to talk about this chart briefly. I want to be fair here, and this chart is misleading. Israel has probably the most effective soldier for soldier fighting force in the world. Well trained, well organized, well equipped, well disciplined, and very very experienced. When they fight against Palestinian's, the death tolls are going to be very lopsided. This alone does not mean that Israel is doing something wrong. I suspect if you had similar charts for the death toll in Iraq during the gulf war(either really, the first or second), you would find similar totals, and I can promise you that the US did everything in it's power to not kill innocents, and even to not have to kill Iraqi soldiers if they did not have to.
    You're right, we should rather see a comparative death toll of civilian casualties. I'm not convinced that it would be very different than this one however.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    One last thing, and I got to go rescue laundry for a few minutes. The thing that saddens my most about this conflict is that the people who lose the most are the ones not actually fighting. The Israeli's killed and injured in missile attacks from Palestine are not the ones doing the fighting. The people who live in horrid conditions and have to worry about Israeli invasions in response to Hamas attacks(and those same Hamas fighters will then use these people as shields) are not the ones doing the fighting. Until and unless some solution for peace is achieved, the innocent will always pay the largest price.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    You're right, we should rather see a comparative death toll of civilian casualties. I'm not convinced that it would be very different than this one however.
    That graph would be even more lopsided, since the Pals don't wear military uniforms and use civilians as human shields during IDF attacks.

    If you set up an anti-aircrat position in the middle of an apartment complex, you can't really bitch when some of your own civilians get smoked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    You're right, we should rather see a comparative death toll of civilian casualties. I'm not convinced that it would be very different than this one however.
    I am not even sure that would be a fair comparison. When Israel is being attacked with missiles, they do have a right to go in and stop it. With the fighting being in Palestine territory, and the inevitability of collateral damage, and the fact that those instigating the attacks on Israel will use civilians as shields, the death toll will be higher for Palestinians.

    I don't think those types of comparisons are useful. I think instead we have to look at each situation and judge the actions in that situation.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    if she were an american of almost any political stripe, this expression of hate would be the instant end of her career

    we'll see what happens to ms thomas

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Does that give them special rights?
    Yeah, the right to defend themselves from their enemies.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    No one says that Israel does not have the right to defend itself, people say that it should be done with proportionality
    and ther are those of us who think that proportionality is a joke.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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