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Thread: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Who cares who leads the investigation. It's so politisized now whoever comes out wrong won't be wrong to one side, and whoever is right won't be right to the other. Therefore the truth shall never be known.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Exactly. I think that the pro-Israel side of the on-going discussion has done a very good job of clinging to and amplifying the victimhood of the Jewish people in history and tying that to Israel as a nation. And it has been done in such a way as to invoke anti-Semitism sentiments as a condemnation for even thinking to question Israel let alone criticize it.

    Frankly, at this point, the questions of historical victimization of the Jewish people and of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict are separate issues, entirely. They have nothing to do with each other.
    I have to respectfully disagree on this point. The Jewish people do not rejoice that their history is filled with these tragedies. Israel was borne out of their experience in Europe in the 20th century.
    Not sure what you think the alternative should be for the Jews in Israel. They will not allow themselves to be walked into the ovens that Europe gave them, they will not try and go back to ME countries that expelled them.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree on this point. The Jewish people do not rejoice that their history is filled with these tragedies. Israel was borne out of their experience in Europe in the 20th century.
    Not sure what you think the alternative should be for the Jews in Israel. They will not allow themselves to be walked into the ovens that Europe gave them, they will not try and go back to ME countries that expelled them.
    This is hyperbole. No one is Europe is trying to stick them in ovens again. It's those type of over the top comments from people on both sides that makes conversations about Israel difficult.
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I have to respectfully disagree on this point. The Jewish people do not rejoice that their history is filled with these tragedies. Israel was borne out of their experience in Europe in the 20th century.
    Not sure what you think the alternative should be for the Jews in Israel. They will not allow themselves to be walked into the ovens that Europe gave them, they will not try and go back to ME countries that expelled them.
    I didn't once say anything about forgetting the tragedies and atrocities that happened to the Jewish people. Nor did I make any attempt to paint their remembrance as a celebration of those tragedies. However, the invocation of these events as a means of shutting down debate about the Israel/Palestine conflict or any question of Israel at all is tiresome, cheap and classless at this point. The chances of another country making confections of starving and beaten Jews in giant ovens is almost nil. The victimhood of the Jews of Europe has little or nothing to do with the conflict going on between Palestine and Israel so many decades later.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Here is a POV of what the Israeli's think of Germany... it may seem trivial, but is revealing.

    During the Eurovision song contest, where a young German girl won, and won over a lot of Europe, she got the top vote (points) from 12 countries.
    She won by a pretty big margin, some 60 plus points.

    Israel gave her 0 points.

    Telling Israeli's to go back to Iron Curtain countries and Germany is nutso. But free speech has its benefits... it reveals both brilliance and lunacy.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    um. duh? the existance of Israel is racism? largest voting bloc, the Arab states?

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I didn't once say anything about forgetting the tragedies and atrocities that happened to the Jewish people. Nor did I make any attempt to paint their remembrance as a celebration of those tragedies. However, the invocation of these events as a means of shutting down debate about the Israel/Palestine conflict or any question of Israel at all is tiresome, cheap and classless at this point. The chances of another country making confections of starving and beaten Jews in giant ovens is almost nil. The victimhood of the Jews of Europe has little or nothing to do with the conflict going on between Palestine and Israel so many decades later.
    I don't know you so can't know any motivations. That being said, when I read the type of things you write I have to wonder. Putting aside who is pro/ anti anything we all have read that Hamas calls for wiping out Israel. You hear the same thing in Lebanon and Iran. Do you really hear about the majority of Israelies who want to kill all the people around them.

    Why is it that Israel the Israeli economy, burdened by war costs both in people and treasure has blossomed while the people around them live in misery. Has Israel held down the economy in Syria, Iran, Lebanon etc.

    I think if there was a way Israel could be assured of living in peace, without the constant threat of destruction they would sign up in a minute.

    Getting on to your personal attacks which I would expect the moderators to deal with. I have not tried to shut down debate, just enter some historical insight for those who might not appreciate why many people of the boomer age and older understand what can happen, even when most people say it can never happen.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Exactly. I think that the pro-Israel side of the on-going discussion has done a very good job of clinging to and amplifying the victimhood of the Jewish people in history and tying that to Israel as a nation. And it has been done in such a way as to invoke anti-Semitism sentiments as a condemnation for even thinking to question Israel let alone criticize it.

    Frankly, at this point, the questions of historical victimization of the Jewish people and of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict are separate issues, entirely. They have nothing to do with each other.
    Today I was a bit curious about the POV of the Jewish people of Belgium about the raid on the flotilla, so I listened the podcast of "radio judaica"

    Podcasts Radio Judaica Belgique

    They talk about the raid on the flotilla. What they say is really neutral until they talk about an Arab Israeli member of Parliament:

    (litteral transcription of what the host says)

    "(name of the Israeli Arab MEP) has not hesited to call (the Israeli raid) "a massacre", I remember you that he is a member of the Knesset. He has added that "the world should react with severity about this intervention", an intervention made by a country where he is a MEP and where he is living"

    So the basic message is that when you're a member of the Knesset you don't have the right to be critical towards Israel.

    ...and I believed that it was the role of the Parliament to control what the Government does...
    Last edited by bub; 06-04-10 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Today I was a bit curious about the POV of the Jewish people of Belgium about the raid on the flotilla, so I listened the podcast of "radio judaica"

    Podcasts Radio Judaica Belgique

    They talk about the raid on the flotilla. What they say is really neutral until they talk about an Arab Israeli member of Parliament:

    (litteral transcription of what the host says)

    "(name of the Israeli Arab MEP) has not hesited to call (the Israeli raid) "a massacre", I remember you that he is a member of the Knesset. He has added that "the world should react with severity about this intervention", an intervention made by a country where he is a MEP and where he is living"

    So the basic message is that when you're a member of the Knesset you don't have the right to be critical towards Israel.

    ...and I believed that it was the role of the Parliament to control what the Government does...
    How about the fact that an Israeli Arab is allowed to be a member of parliment. How well have Jews and Christians done in Arab nations.

  10. #40
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Israel was borne out of their experience in Europe in the 20th century.
    .
    Does that give them special rights?

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