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Thread: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    History is always relevant.
    If you can find me some way other than religious bias for the Old Testament to matter in the Israel/Palestine question, by all means, do so.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    The Old Testament has the reason why the Jews are fighting so hard for their rightful homeland, now. You can dismiss it all you want and claim the Jews have no right to live in Israel, but if you can't backup your argument, say so.
    Just because their ancestors or in this case their ancient ancestors lived there does not mean they have a right to live there just because their ancient ancestors did. I do accept the Bible as a factual history book ,however historical claims don't mean anything and have no relevance on today. It would be like giving the descendants of slaves reparations, the government taking your property and giving it someone who claims to be descendant of a tribe that once lived in that area or taking chunks of Africa and giving it to people who claim to be decadents of the people who once lived their and I am pretty sure that you do not support those things. The only thing that gives Israelis the right to be there is because of spoils of war. The Ottomans lost in WWI so the allies were free to do what ever they want with their chunks.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 06-08-10 at 03:19 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Ooooh...the UN wrote them an....angry letter.
    jallman,

    The international pressure that is frequently placed on Israel is no small thing. Charles Krauthammer makes a compelling argument in support of this:

    washingtonpost.com

    ...

    But even more important, why did Israel even have to resort to blockade? Because, blockade is Israel's fallback as the world systematically de-legitimizes its traditional ways of defending itself -- forward and active defense.

    (1) Forward defense: As a small, densely populated country surrounded by hostile states, Israel had, for its first half-century, adopted forward defense -- fighting wars on enemy territory (such as the Sinai and Golan Heights) rather than its own.

    Where possible (Sinai, for example) Israel has traded territory for peace. But where peace offers were refused, Israel retained the territory as a protective buffer zone. Thus Israel retained a small strip of southern Lebanon to protect the villages of northern Israel. And it took many losses in Gaza, rather than expose Israeli border towns to Palestinian terror attacks. It is for the same reason America wages a grinding war in Afghanistan: You fight them there, so you don't have to fight them here.

    But under overwhelming outside pressure, Israel gave it up. The Israelis were told the occupations were not just illegal but at the root of the anti-Israel insurgencies -- and therefore withdrawal, by removing the cause, would bring peace.

    Land for peace. Remember? Well, during the past decade, Israel gave the land -- evacuating South Lebanon in 2000 and Gaza in 2005. What did it get? An intensification of belligerency, heavy militarization of the enemy side, multiple kidnappings, cross-border attacks and, from Gaza, years of unrelenting rocket attack.

    (2) Active defense: Israel then had to switch to active defense -- military action to disrupt, dismantle and defeat (to borrow President Obama's description of our campaign against the Taliban and al-Qaeda) the newly armed terrorist mini-states established in southern Lebanon and Gaza after Israel withdrew.

    The result? The Lebanon war of 2006 and Gaza operation of 2008-09. They were met with yet another avalanche of opprobrium and calumny by the same international community that had demanded the land-for-peace Israeli withdrawals in the first place. Worse, the U.N. Goldstone report, which essentially criminalized Israel's defensive operation in Gaza while whitewashing the casus belli -- the preceding and unprovoked Hamas rocket war -- effectively de-legitimized any active Israeli defense against its self-declared terror enemies.

    (3) Passive defense: Without forward or active defense, Israel is left with but the most passive and benign of all defenses -- a blockade to simply prevent enemy rearmament. Yet, as we speak, this too is headed for international de-legitimation. Even the United States is now moving toward having it abolished.
    Essentially, the frequent international condemnation directed at Israel has forced them to abandon two of their previous defense strategies.

    [quoteI wanna see the sanctions start; then maybe I will concede that they don't get a pass.[/QUOTE]

    Why do you think Israel is deserving of sanctions?

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    YouTube - Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    And the liberals place this lady on a pedestal. LOL
    On a pedestal? For being a DP avatar? That's the only place I know her from. She must be before my time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  5. #335
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If you can find me some way other than religious bias for the Old Testament to matter in the Israel/Palestine question, by all means, do so.
    I am just saying that the dead sea scrolls are a study of the "history" of ancient religions. It provides a great insight of the way people conducted their religions in ancient times such as "bread and wine" and what the" Messiah" meant to them. I am not claiming that they are right or wrong.

    Educational Site: Dead Sea Scrolls

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Ooooh...the UN wrote them an....angry letter.
    I wanna see the sanctions start; then maybe I will concede that they don't get a pass.
    I wanna see sanctions start on the U.S., since according to you we did whatever Israel did too (I refer you to your response to Tasha, claiming that we "did it too").

    EDIT: And even ignoring that, how would the lack of sanctions be a "pass" if we're failing to get sanctions on even Iran and North Korea? That doesn't make any sense.
    Last edited by Dav; 06-08-10 at 04:29 PM.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I wanna see sanctions start on the U.S., since according to you we did whatever Israel did too (I refer you to your response to Tasha, claiming that we "did it too").
    You can refer me to it till you choke on the reference but that doesn't make them in any way similar.

    EDIT: And even ignoring that, how would the lack of sanctions be a "pass" if we're failing to get sanctions on even Iran and North Korea? That doesn't make any sense.
    In order for that to be a rational argument or the slightest bit relevant, you would have to assume that I don't want sanctions on Iraq or North Korea. Care to take a guess as to what my stance is on those two after you pull your foot out of your mouth?

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You can refer me to it till you choke on the reference but that doesn't make them in any way similar.
    Then maybe you should have said that instead of "you're defending murderers by saying that other people did it too".

    In order for that to be a rational argument or the slightest bit relevant, you would have to assume that I don't want sanctions on Iraq or North Korea. Care to take a guess as to what my stance is on those two after you pull your foot out of your mouth?
    I said "even". As in, those are the ONLY countries anyone is seeking sanctions for, even though we can't get them. In order for YOUR argument to be rational, Israel would have to be worse at human rights violations than every single country except Iran and North Korea.

    Eh, dunno why I bother. This is one topic where you seem determined to throw reason aside to troll the hell out of anyone involved. I'll get back to you when you present actual arguments instead of one-line flame bait.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Then maybe you should have said that instead of "you're defending murderers by saying that other people did it too".
    I never defended murderers by saying "other people did it, too". Tashah, however, did. I think you need to brush up on your comprehension skills before you come at me again, boy.

    I said "even". As in, those are the ONLY countries anyone is seeking sanctions for, even though we can't get them. In order for YOUR argument to be rational, Israel would have to be worse at human rights violations than every single country except Iran and North Korea.
    Uh, no. We weren't talking about North Korea and Iran at that moment. My position is logically consistent because I want sanctions against them all, along with a few others. Try again. You haven't done well so far.

    Eh, dunno why I bother. This is one topic where you seem determined to throw reason aside to troll the hell out of anyone involved. I'll get back to you when you present actual arguments instead of one-line flame bait.[/
    Hey, kid...you interjected here. You inserted yourself into the discussion. There was no trolling going on here. In fact, that's just your sour label given to an opponent who doesn't allow you to create irrelevant sidebars. "Waaaaaa, he trolled me because he won't capitulate to having the discussion *I* want to have. Waaaaaaaa".

    When you bring something on topic to discuss, then we can have a discussion. Otherwise, get a tissue and dry your nose.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I never defended murderers by saying "other people did it, too".
    I never said that you did. I don't think I'm the one who needs to brush up on my reading comprehension.

    Uh, no. We weren't talking about North Korea and Iran at that moment. My position is logically consistent because I want sanctions against them all, along with a few others. Try again. You haven't done well so far.
    See... this is what you do. You attack the argument in whatever way first pops to your head without bothering to be consistent or follow the actual conversation. Who you want sanctions on is irrelevant to what YOU were saying, which is that sanctions on Israel would be necessary for OTHERS to be consistent. Yet since most other people are right now only seeking sanctions on Iran and North Korea, that would mean that by the standards you are using, Israel is as bad as Iran and North Korea and basicaly nobody else.

    And I will instert anything relevant to the discussion into the discussion, and here your trolling is relevant. If you aren't consciously trolling, then this issue must make you really angry for some reason, enough to completely overtake your rationality. If so, I'd suggest taking the advice in your sig.

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