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Thread: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

  1. #151
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    He is not yet clear:

    "With Likud back in power, starting in 2009, Israeli foreign policy is still under review. Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu, in his "National Security" platform, neither endorsed nor ruled out the idea of a Palestinian state"

    Likud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    bub, they speak in past terms at that sentence.
    One setnence after it they clearly state that:
    "In June 2009 Netanyahu outlined his conditions for the eventual creation of a Palestinian state, including the state being demilitarized, without an army or control of their airspace"

    And even so, that is still different from not accepting the establishment of a Palestinian state.

    But the point was that the Likkud Charter says something that is not respected by Netanyahu (who does not exclude the possibility of the creation of a Palestinian state), exactly as the Hamas charter is not respected by the leaders of the Hamas.
    The Likud charter is aligned with its leader's opinions, as is Hamas.
    Your source says "Dwaik told Hamas website on Thursday that the report was "inaccurate". According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands."

    That does not contradict mine, which says "Hamas said today it would accept a Palestinian state on land occupied in the 1967 war, but it would not explicitly recognise Israel. "
    Actually yes it does, they say there that they do not agree with that statement.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-05-10 at 11:54 AM.
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    bub, they speak in past terms at that sentence.
    One setnence after it they clearly state that:
    "In June 2009 Netanyahu outlined his conditions for the eventual creation of a Palestinian state, including the state being demilitarized, without an army or control of their airspace"

    And even so, that is still different from not accepting the establishment of a Palestinian state.


    The Likud charter is aligned with its leader's opinions, as is Hamas.
    Then Netanyahu doesn't accept the creation of a Palestinian state since this is written in the Charter

    Actually yes it does, they say there that they do not agree with that statement.
    Read slowly

    Your source says "Dwaik told Hamas website on Thursday that the report was "inaccurate". According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands."

    That does not contradict mine, which says "Hamas said today it would accept a Palestinian state on land occupied in the 1967 war, but it would not explicitly recognise Israel. "




    "Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands" = "would not explicitly recognise Israel"

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    So now correcting misinformation is spinning?
    I think it goes the other way, you've just taken another attempt at propagadna and were exposed.
    Take your propaganda elsewhere.
    Then Netanyahu doesn't accept the creation of a Palestinian state since this is written in the Charter


    I have asked for a dated source on the Likud Charter, and you've yet to supply us with one.
    Instead you've taken to propaganda and has misquoted from Wikipedia, and I've exposed your doing.
    Read slowly

    Your source says "Dwaik told Hamas website on Thursday that the report was "inaccurate". According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands."

    That does not contradict mine, which says "Hamas said today it would accept a Palestinian state on land occupied in the 1967 war, but it would not explicitly recognise Israel. "




    "Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands" = "would not explicitly recognise Israel"

    You're really disconnected from ME politics.
    When he says that Hamas would never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands he is referring to Israel!
    Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's existence, it believes all of the Israeli land should be, and is, Palestinian.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    I can't believe I really have to do it, but here's another source:

    Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist, then doesn't - The Majlis
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    So now correcting misinformation is spinning?
    I think it goes the other way, you've just taken another attempt at propagadna and were exposed.
    Take your propaganda elsewhere.


    I have asked for a dated source on the Likud Charter, and you've yet to supply us with one.
    Instead you've taken to propaganda and has misquoted from Wikipedia, and I've exposed your doing.
    It's from the 1999 charter, the link is from the Israeli government.

    But the point was that the Likkud Charter says something that is not respected by Netanyahu (who does not exclude the possibility of the creation of a Palestinian state), exactly as the Hamas charter is not respected by the leaders of the Hamas.

    You're really disconnected from ME politics.
    When he says that Hamas would never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands he is referring to Israel!
    Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's existence, it believes all of the Israeli land should be, and is, Palestinian.
    Read very slowly and pay attention to every word

    Your source says "Dwaik told Hamas website on Thursday that the report was "inaccurate". According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands."

    That does not contradict mine, which says "Hamas said today it would accept a Palestinian state on land occupied in the 1967 war, but it would not explicitly recognise Israel. "
    Last edited by bub; 06-05-10 at 12:22 PM.

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    It's from the 1999 charter, the link is from the Israeli government.

    But the point was that the Likkud Charter says something that is not respected by Netanyahu (who does not exclude the possibility of the creation of a Palestinian state), exactly as the Hamas charter is not respected by the leaders of the Hamas.
    Well that's outright false.
    At the time of the 1999 charter, when Netanyahu was the PM for the first time, he did believe those ideas as they are listed in the charter.
    The 1999 is clearly outdated now that he has taken a turn in his politics and supports the two-states solution.

    The charter changes directly with the opinions of the party's leadership, just as Hamas, in this false report, stated that it will accept Israel's right to exist and update its charter.
    Read very slowly

    Your source says "Dwaik told Hamas website on Thursday that the report was "inaccurate". According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands."

    That does not contradict mine, which says "Hamas said today it would accept a Palestinian state on land occupied in the 1967 war, but it would not explicitly recognise Israel. "
    The level of intelligence required to understand what I told you is minimal, yet you do not seem to be capable of understanding it.
    "According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands" - meaning that Hamas will never recognize Israel (=The occupation on Palestinian lands).
    You seem to think that when Hamas says "The occupation on Palestinian lands" he is referring to the occupation of Gaza(in the past) and the West Bank, while in truth it is referring to Israel.
    It shows you are disconnected from ME politics and do not know about the terms used by Hamas.
    It's like saying that Ahmedinejad simply hates the "Zionist entity" and not Israel.
    Check my second source if you're still not sure about it, where it is clearly stated that Hamas denies the reports.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 06-05-10 at 12:26 PM.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Well that's outright false.
    At the time of the 1999 charter, when Netanyahu was the PM for the first time, he did believe those ideas as they are listed in the charter.
    The 1999 is clearly outdated now that he has taken a turn in his politics and supports the two-states solution.
    Then the Hamas Charter is also outdated (read again, that was my point since the begining) since Hamas said it would accept (not "recognize", "accept") the presence of Israel inside its 1967 borders



    The charter changes directly with the opinions of the party's leadership, just as Hamas, in this false report, stated that it will accept Israel's right to exist and update its charter.
    The level of intelligence required to understand what I told you is minimal, yet you do not seem to be capable of understanding it.
    "According to him, Hamas will never recognize the occupation on Palestinian lands" - meaning that Hamas will never recognize Israel (=The occupation on Palestinian lands).
    You seem to think that when Hamas says "The occupation on Palestinian lands" he is referring to the occupation of Gaza(in the past) and the West Bank, while in truth it is referring to Israel.
    It shows you are disconnected from ME politics and do not know about the terms used by Hamas.
    It's like saying that Ahmedinejad simply hates the "Zionist entity" and not Israel.
    Check my second source if you're still not sure about it, where it is clearly stated that Hamas denies the reports.
    There is a difference between "(officially) recognizing" and "accepting (the de facto existence of Israel inside its 1967 borders)"

    Do you understand that?

  8. #158
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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Then the Hamas Charter is also outdated (read again, that was my point since the begining) since Hamas said it would accept (not "recognize", "accept") the presence of Israel inside its 1967 borders
    Hamas, as to present, does not recognize Israel's existence.
    There is a difference between "(officially) recognizing" and "accepting (the de facto existence of Israel inside its 1967 borders)"

    Do you understand that?
    I understand more than that, I understand that as long as Hamas does not recognize Israel it denies its right to exist.
    Your claim before that Hamas has recognized Israel's right to exist was something that they've completely denied immediately after the report was released.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Hamas, as to present, does not recognize Israel's existence.
    I understand more than that, I understand that as long as Hamas does not recognize Israel it denies its right to exist.
    Your claim before that Hamas has recognized Israel's right to exist was something that they've completely denied immediately after the report was released.
    OK so bottom line you do not understand the nuance between "officially recognizing" and "de facto accepting"

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    Re: Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany

    Yet another source:
    Haniyeh denies telling W. Post Hamas would recognize Israel

    Ismail Haniyeh, who is expected to head the Palestinian Authority's new Hamas-led government, yesterday denied having told The Washington Post that Hamas would recognize Israel if Israel met certain conditions.

    In an interview published yesterday, the Post quoted Haniyeh as saying that Hamas would recognize Israel if Israel agreed to "recognize a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, release the prisoners and recognize the rights of the refugees to return to Israel."

    But at a press conference with Palestinian media in Gaza yesterday, Haniyeh said that he never discussed the question of recognizing Israel in the interview; he said only that if Israel fulfilled those three conditions, Hamas would consent to a long-term truce with it.

    Haniyeh did not address specific quotes from the interview with Lally Weymouth.

    Weymouth asked Haniyeh repeatedly whether Hamas would be willing to recognize Israel.

    Initially, he responded that the real question was "which Israel should we recognize? The Israel of 1917; the Israel of 1936; the Israel of 1948; the Israel of 1956; or the Israel of 1967? Which borders and which Israel?"

    Later, however, when Weymouth specifically asked whether Hamas would recognize Israel in the 1967 borders, Haniyeh responded: "If Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, then we will establish a peace in stages."

    Asked what exactly this means, he said: "We will establish a situation of stability and calm which will bring safety for our people - what Sheikh [Ahmed] Yassin called a long-term hudna."

    Toward the end of the interview, Weymouth again asked whether Hamas would be willing to recognize Israel.

    This time, Haniyeh responded: "If Israel declares that it will give the Palestinian people a state and give them back all their rights, then we are ready to recognize them."

    Meanwhile, a senior Russian diplomat said yesterday that Moscow expects Hamas to make a clear pledge to recognize Israel.

    Alexander Kalugin, the Russian Foreign Ministry's special envoy to the Middle East, said that Hamas should outline approaches to recognition of Israel in its action plan.

    "The main thing is that they should clearly speak on the issue of recognizing the state of Israel," Kalugin said, according to the Interfax news agency.

    A delegation headed by Hamas leader Khaled Meshal is due to arrive in Moscow on March 3, Hamas said in a statement posted on its Web site on Friday.

    Kalugin said that the Hamas delegation is expected to arrive in Moscow "at the end of the first week of March."
    Haniyeh denies telling W. Post Hamas would recognize Israel - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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