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Thread: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

  1. #11
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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    You're right. We were being lied to about there being government death panels should a public option occur, when, currently, we have to deal with death panels by private insurance companies.
    I just read Palin's "death panels" comment for the first time and it certainly has been spun by the media and many others. I'd always been told that she claimed that the bill before Congress contained a provision for death panels. She made no such claim. You guys really had me fooled these last few months.

    Sarah Palin: Statement on the Current Health Care Debate | Facebook
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I just read Palin's "death panels" comment for the first time and it certainly has been spun by the media and many others. I'd always been told that she claimed that the bill before Congress contained a provision for death panels. She made no such claim. You guys really had me fooled these last few months.

    Sarah Palin: Statement on the Current Health Care Debate | Facebook
    FacebooK?

    Palin, Aug. 7: The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care.

    (snip)

    On Aug. 12, Palin attempted to clear up her argument with a detailed Facebook post. She discussed Section 1233 and said that "it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients." Palin goes onto argue:

    Palin, Aug. 12: The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context. … These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care?

    The fact remains that the bill wouldn’t require patients to receive counseling sessions, nor would it require a doctor to offer one. Rather, it modifies Section 1861(s)2 of the Social Security Act, defining what services Medicare will pay for. So if a patient receives a counseling session from a doctor or health care practitioner, he or she doesn’t have to pay for it – Medicare will. As we pointed out in our earlier story, Medicare will also pay for prosthetic limbs, but that doesn’t mean that every recipient gets those, too.

    Palin vs. Obama: Death Panels | FactCheck.org

    Let's be objective here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    Let's be objective here.
    That's a good one coming from you.....

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    I just read Palin's "death panels" comment for the first time and it certainly has been spun by the media and many others. I'd always been told that she claimed that the bill before Congress contained a provision for death panels. She made no such claim. You guys really had me fooled these last few months.

    Sarah Palin: Statement on the Current Health Care Debate | Facebook
    No, you see, that's exactly our point. She talked about her baby with Down's Syndrome facing "Obama's Death Panel" when clearly no such thing ever existed. She was ****ing lying. Worse, other people picked up on it and the GOP used the phrase as a club to beat people into opposing the bill. There was never going to be any government body that sits and decides on a particular case and whether it was cost-effective to keep grandma alive. It didn't exist.
    Last edited by Deuce; 06-10-10 at 05:02 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, you see, that's exactly our point. She talked about her baby with Down's Syndrome facing "Obama's Death Panel" when clearly no such thing ever existed. She was ****ing lying. Worse, other people picked up on it and the GOP used the phrase as a club to beat people into opposing the bill.
    You don't believe rationing will be an eventuality with this bill?? Really.????

    If not, the U.S. will be the first country with government mandated health care that hasn't resorted to healthcare rationing.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You don't believe rationing will be an eventuality with this bill?? Really.????

    If not, the U.S. will be the first country with government mandated health care that hasn't resorted to healthcare rationing.
    What do you mean by rationing? Sometimes I suspect people don't really understand what that word means as it applies to health care. We already ration health care in this country.

    Do you even know what the provision Palin was talking about did?

    Allowed medicare to pay for an end-of-life consultation.

    That's it.

    This is something doctors already do, and every person should get such a consultation in their later years. The doctor talks to you about your will, your medical desires for your final days, do-not-rescusitate orders, medical power of attorney, that sort of thing. The provision would allow medicare to pay for that consultation. A consultation with your doctor, not a government employee. Edit: And if you think your doctor would try to coerce you into taking the cheaper way to die, you should probably find a new doctor.
    Last edited by Deuce; 06-10-10 at 05:14 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  7. #17
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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post

    Do you even know what the provision Palin was talking about did?

    Allowed medicare to pay for an end-of-life consultation.

    That's it.

    This is something doctors already do, and every person should get such a consultation in their later years. The doctor talks to you about your will, your medical desires for your final days, do-not-rescusitate orders, medical power of attorney, that sort of thing. The provision would allow medicare to pay for that consultation. A consultation with your doctor, not a government employee. Edit: And if you think your doctor would try to coerce you into taking the cheaper way to die, you should probably find a new doctor.
    It's obvious that you didn't read Palin's comments. She was NOT talking about end of life counseling, she was talking about healthcare rationing.

    The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It's obvious that you didn't read Palin's comments. She was NOT talking about end of life counseling, she was talking about healthcare rationing.
    Right, and the extremely convoluted (and incorrect) manner in which her supporters tried to retroactively prove her statements via the bill itself was through this end-of-life consultation, and something about a doctor's rating system.

    In any case, what she was describing simply didn't exist. There was no panel that gauges a person's value to society. Again, I'll ask you, what do you picture as "rationing" that this bill will cause? Will I be potentially unable to get an MRI? Denied chemotherapy? Have to just deal with that broken ankle instead of having the bone set?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #19
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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Right, and the extremely convoluted (and incorrect) manner in which her supporters tried to retroactively prove her statements via the bill itself was through this end-of-life consultation, and something about a doctor's rating system.
    No, actually it was liberals that tried to manipulate her comments into the end of life counseling non-issue.

    In any case, what she was describing simply didn't exist. There was no panel that gauges a person's value to society. Again, I'll ask you, what do you picture as "rationing" that this bill will cause? Will I be potentially unable to get an MRI? Denied chemotherapy? Have to just deal with that broken ankle instead of having the bone set?
    You're right... there is no rationing panel..........not yet anyway. Healthcare reform is not in affect yet. Just wait until they see that few of the young uninsured in this country will buy insurance, thus greatly increasing costs and requirements for more government subsidies. Then, you'll see rationing come into full force.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Health Costs and the Federal Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No, actually it was liberals that tried to manipulate her comments into the end of life counseling non-issue.



    You're right... there is no rationing panel..........not yet anyway. Healthcare reform is not in affect yet. Just wait until they see that few of the young uninsured in this country will buy insurance, thus greatly increasing costs and requirements for more government subsidies. Then, you'll see rationing come into full force.
    Buying insurance and consuming medical resources are not the same thing. Healthy people don't consume a great deal of such resources, because they're... well, healthy. And you still haven't explained what you mean by "rationing." Canada has socialized insurance, but you can get whatever treatment you need there.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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