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Thread: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

  1. #31
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    No, no they actually didnt according to international law.
    What international law are you quoting, the one written by an obiously biased UN?

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post

    This revelation means that Israeli forces attacked and killed almost 20 people in international waters who were unarmed.
    Nine people were killed, not 20.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    So stun grenades are not considered weapons?

    'Activists threw stun grenades'
    And why do they not realse what happen when they shot people just what they say the activist did?

    This is why I hate American Media they never let you have the full truth about what happened over their I have seen footage coming live from the ship in question, and this is why I hardly by Israel version of events

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Nine people were killed, not 20.
    Nope up too 20 people were killed in the raid other soruces have put it at 20 not nine.

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    What international law are you quoting, the one written by an obiously biased UN?

    So the one that is a biased UN ahahhahahahah, because they dare too criticize Israel?

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by bicycleman View Post
    What international law are you quoting, the one written by an obiously biased UN?
    I've already posted it previously
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    No, no they actually didnt according to international law.
    Just as the US blockaded Germany in WWII Israel can blockade the hostile entity of Gaza.

    GWEN IFILL: Was the ship in international waters?

    MICHAEL OREN: It was.

    GWEN IFILL: Is that -- was that breaking the law for the Israeli military to board the ship in international waters, what so many people at the U.N. were saying that today?

    MICHAEL OREN: It is not.

    Under international law, when there's a case of a military blockade against a hostile entity -- and we are talking about a hostile entity -- this is -- this is Hamas in Gaza, a country under Article 51 of the United Nations charter, the right to self-defense, has a right to defend itself self.

    By the same articles of war, the United States blockaded Germany during World War II in the open seas. Israel was well within its international rights.
    Israeli Ambassador: Soldiers Had 'No Choice But to Defend Themselves' | PBS NewsHour | May 31, 2010 | PBS

    OBL 11/24/02

  8. #38
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Then where are the guns that were onboard the ship? IDF claimed to have found them then said no they werent there, which is it?
    I don't recall the IDF or I ever claiming that the activists brought guns. I've said the exact opposite a half-dozen times.

    The IDF claims the people on-board the ship took away their guns? In what world is that happening? Peace activists with little or no military training disarming trained IDF commandos? I dont buy that for a second and frankly I think the expectation that anyone should believe that is insulting.
    You're free to believe or disbelieve whatever you want. If you'd watched the videos, you would have seen several situations where soldiers were knocked down or piled oin by the activists. You're free to think that it's physically impossible that someone could have grabbed a gun in one of those situations, but I don't.

    Yes, the protesters did resist the IDF, I was incorrect about that earlier. However, such resistance in international waters is legal as what the IDF did was an act of piracy.
    Link?

    From guns they never found.
    See above.

    I do not trust the IDF. They lied through their teeth during Cast Lead, they're publishing the most ludicrous stories about what happened here. Their credibility is shot.
    And I don't trust radical activists. Funny how that works.

    Damn straight I do. The IDF is highly trained to deal with EXACTLY this kind of situation and again any idiot knows that.
    And yet they didn't do a very good job of it, as is clearly obvious from the videos. But I guess that never happened, because in your mind IDF soldiers are Ramboesque commandos who are completely invulnerable from any harm.

    So what? Knives are used for a myriad of different things besides killing people.
    Not sure what you think your point is here. You said there were no weapons. I pointed out that there were a ****load of knives. You said that they were just kitchen knives. I pointed out that even kitchen knives can be weapons, and that there were additional non-kitchen knives.

    Unless you're going to argue that a knife is not a weapon, I don't really know where you're going with this. If you still can't see how they could be classified as weapons, I advise you to grab a Jambiya and head down to the mall to see what happens.

    They resisted because what the IDF was doing was ILLEGAL. You CANNOT board a ship in international waters with military force the way the IDF did.
    And yet nobody has managed to prove this, bare assertions aside.

    Care to point out where?
    I think it's around pages 13-16 (I use 40 posts/page).

    Israel's action is a breach of the 2009 UN International Maritime Organization Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation which Israel signed. According to the article 6.1 of the SUA, the jurisdiction over the offences that a ship might have committed lays in the State whose flag the ship is flying in international waters (in this situation, Turkey).

    Israel did NOT have permission from Turkey or from any other ship's government in the flotilla to seize the ships in international waters.
    That convention is entirely inapplicable here. Not only is it designed to target individual non-state actors, but you're missing a key provision:

    Article 3
    1. Any person commits an offence if that person unlawfully and intentionally:...
    The Convention doesn't create any new crimes, it simply creates a remedy for things that are already crimes under international law. Citing this convention as proof that the action was illegal is circular reasoning.

    That's the danger you face in drawing your legal arguments from an "expert" quoted on wiki instead of researching it yourself.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Israel's action is a breach of the 2009 UN International Maritime Organization Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation which Israel signed. According to the article 6.1 of the SUA, the jurisdiction over the offences that a ship might have committed lays in the State whose flag the ship is flying in international waters (in this situation, Turkey).

    Israel did NOT have permission from Turkey or from any other ship's government in the flotilla to seize the ships in international waters.
    Boarding and inspection was consistent with international law (San Remo Manual, Law of the Sea Convention, and customary international law). Furthermore, the Convention specifically notes:

    ARTICLE 9

    Nothing in this Convention shall affect in any way the rules of international law pertaining to the competence of States to exercise investigative or enforcement jurisdiction on board ships not flying their flag.


    In the case in question, Israel's inspection was consistent with Article 9. Hence, there were no violations.

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    They aren't even in war with Gaza anymore I THOUGHT they pulled out of Gaza oh my I guess the blockade isn't necessary anymore.

    Israel Pulls Ground Troops Out of Gaza - washingtonpost.com

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