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Thread: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

  1. #21
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Because they ARE ****ing kitchen knives and metal pipes! I'm sorry but that is the lamest explanation I have ever heard.
    I cannot believe that you think this was a spontaneous accident as opposed to a planned incident. Have you seen any of the videos? Have you heard any of the accounts of how they swarmed the soldiers as soon as they landed? Have you seen the piles of pipes that they used to fight with, or the slingshots or rocks?

    Anyone familiar with Israel at all knows you do NOT **** with the IDF, these are not people known for their easy-going nature and sense of humor.
    And yet that's exactly what they did.

    Metal pipes and kitchen knives are NOT going to do anything wielded by civilians against trained IDF commandos and any fool knows that.
    And yet several of the Israeli troops were injured or thrown off the side of the boat.

    I'm sorry but I've lost some serious respect for you if you are genuinely pushing this "ambush" crap.
    Then I don't know what to tell you, because it's manifestly obvious that this was not at all unexpected on the part of the activists. They had a contingency plan in place for the event that the Israelis tried to board the boat, and they attempted to carry it out.

    It actually does make a difference. Kitchen knives are not designed for stabbing someone and break easily when they are used to do so. The metal of kitchen knives is extremely hard so that it retains an edge longer but that also makes it brittle, try bending a kitchen knife someday and you'll see what I mean. A $6 pocket knife is a better tool for stabbing someone than a kitchen knife.
    Regardless of whether it's marginally more brittle it would still do some serious damage, as would a lead pipe. Nor were they all kitchen knives - just take a look at this guy:



    You can see that same knife in the pile of other knives that was collected in the above picture.

    If you want to tell yourself that this was just an accident, that's fine. That's exactly why they brought these weapons instead of more obvious ones, so that they could tell people this was an accident.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I cannot believe that you think this was a spontaneous accident as opposed to a planned incident.
    I do think it was planned, from the Israeli side! They intentionally shot at people to deter others from coming.

    Have you seen any of the videos?
    YES! I posted it in the OP!

    Have you heard any of the accounts of how they swarmed the soldiers as soon as they landed? Have you seen the piles of pipes that they used to fight with, or the slingshots or rocks?
    Actually I've seen the video where they put up the white flag immediately but were shot anyways, I posted it in the OP. Again, even if the commandos were faced with slingshots and pipes, they're IDF commandos! They dont need to open fire on people who have far less training than them and are basically unarmed.

    And yet several of the Israeli troops were injured or thrown off the side of the boat.
    So the IDF says. Funnily enough, the IDF hasnt released any video or information of it happening even though they made plenty sure to document everything else.

    Then I don't know what to tell you, because it's manifestly obvious that this was not at all unexpected on the part of the activists. They had a contingency plan in place for the event that the Israelis tried to board the boat, and they attempted to carry it out.
    Bull****. Metal pipes and kitchen knives are not a contingency plan against the IDF and any idiot would know that.

    Regardless of whether it's marginally more brittle it would still do some serious damage, as would a lead pipe. Nor were they all kitchen knives - just take a look at this guy:

    You can see that same knife in the pile of other knives that was collected in the above picture.
    That style of knife is not rare in that part of the world. It's called a Jambiya and is carried by just about anyone and their dog in that region of the world.

    If you want to tell yourself that this was just an accident, that's fine. That's exactly why they brought these weapons instead of more obvious ones, so that they could tell people this was an accident.
    It wasnt a ****ing accident, Israel shot down people who could have been easily subdued or otherwise surrendered to ensure that they stopped coming.


    Keep in mind, this attack took place in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. The people on-board the ship have, in international waters, every right to defend themselves regardless of who the aggressor is. Be it the IDF, Somali pirates, the US Navy, SCS pirates, whoever. Technically, assaulting a ship bearing the Turkish flag in international waters is assaulting Turkish soil and can be considered an act of war.
    Last edited by Hoplite; 06-02-10 at 03:48 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    I do think it was planned, from the Israeli side! They intentionally shot at people to deter others from coming.
    Ah, yes, that's why they shot people on all of the boats, and why they were under strict orders not to use anything more dangerous than a painball unless they were fired upon.

    YES! I posted it in the OP!
    I'm not talking about Al-Jazeera's unnamed sources, I'm talking about the actual video of the actual events where you can see the activists attacking the IDF soldiers.

    YouTube - israeli soldiers attacked by mob

    YouTube - Flotilla Rioters Prepare Rods, Slingshots, Broken Bottles and Metal Objects to Attack IDF Soldiers

    Actually I've seen the video where they put up the white flag immediately but were shot anyways, I posted it in the OP. Again, even if the commandos were faced with slingshots and pipes, they're IDF commandos! They dont need to open fire on people who have far less training than them and are basically unarmed.
    And again, they didn't fire live ammunition until they reported being fired on first. You can hear the conversations on the videos.

    So the IDF says. Funnily enough, the IDF hasnt released any video or information of it happening even though they made plenty sure to document everything else.
    Try watching the videos before you make demonstrably false claims like this. There are several videos that clearly show this. They've uploaded a dozen videos in the past day:

    YouTube - idfnadesk's Channel

    Bull****. Metal pipes and kitchen knives are not a contingency plan against the IDF and any idiot would know that.
    Oh, well so long as you say so.

    That style of knife is not rare in that part of the world. It's called a Jambiya and is carried by just about anyone and their dog in that region of the world.
    And yet it's not a kitchen knife.

    It wasnt a ****ing accident, Israel shot down people who could have been easily subdued or otherwise surrendered to ensure that they stopped coming.
    lol

    Yes, Israel shot people who could have easily surrendered. Why? Because they didn't surrender. The people surrendered on the other 5 boats and none of them were shot. Mysterious, that.


    Keep in mind, this attack took place in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. The people on-board the ship have, in international waters, every right to defend themselves regardless of who the aggressor is. Be it the IDF, Somali pirates, the US Navy, SCS pirates, whoever. Technically, assaulting a ship bearing the Turkish flag in international waters is assaulting Turkish soil and can be considered an act of war.
    This is simply incorrect, for reasons that have been rehashed ad nauseum on the large thread on this topic. If you'd like to try to show me where this is illegal, feel free to take it up there.
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    My bottom dollar says that Israel is trying to instigate a war.
    ....WTF?

    Why would Israel look to try to instigate a war, and if they were trying to instigate a war why not just blow up the ship?

    If Israel REALLY was interested in protecting itself, they could have let them in, determined if there was weapons as silently as possible and then dropping a missile when these weapons reached their destination
    Let them in where? Into Gaza? How was Israel supposed to determine if there was weapons on the ships once they touched down in Gaza?

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It was the Israeli navy that violently boarded the ship, not the other way around.
    No, they "boarded" the ship. There was no "violently", as from most of the accounts thus far it seems they did not begin to act "violently" until they were attacked.

    I am quite sure if the aid floatilla tried to board and Israeli navy vessel they would have been shot on sight, rather then just beaten with some clubs.
    I'm quite sure that would be the case since:

    1. Some random "aid" workers are in no means a legitimate military or police force that has authority of any kind to inspect for contraband, and while there are disputes between experts and intelligent people on both sides of the issue in regards to the legitimacy of Israel's claimed right to conduct such a search that is still far more than you could say for a random civilian group doing the same thing.

    2. Second, your scenario doesn't paint a situation where said Israeli ship is attempting to breach a militaries blockaid with the stated intention of entering into their border.

    So your analogy doesn't really work.

    No one would have died if Israel did not board the ship in an early morning raid
    You're absolutely correct. No one would've died if Israel did not board the ship. However your pathetically biased statement is showing up in the middle, blaming one side, and obviously ignoring the one you're biased towards while lambasting the one you're biased against.

    You see, yes, you're technically correct in that statement, however guess what else? No one would have died if:

    1. These ships did not actively attempt to bypass a military blockaid and infringe upon Israeli waterways.
    2. The people on the ship took Israel's offer to pull into port, allow an inspection of their cargo, and then allow that cargo into Gaza if it was not contraband.
    3. The people on the ship did not attack the IDF soldiers, as is what happened on the other 5 ships.

    So yes, you're correct, if Israel hadn't got on the ships no one on the ships would've died. However before that happened the people on the ship had two very simple ways to avoid being shot at; don't try and run a military blockaid and take Israel up on their offer if you actually had only legit goods. After the boarding happened the people on the ship AGAIN had a way to avoid getting shot at, by not trying to attack the IDF.

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Ah, yes, that's why they shot people on all of the boats, and why they were under strict orders not to use anything more dangerous than a painball unless they were fired upon.
    Then where are the guns that were onboard the ship? IDF claimed to have found them then said no they werent there, which is it?

    The IDF claims the people on-board the ship took away their guns? In what world is that happening? Peace activists with little or no military training disarming trained IDF commandos? I dont buy that for a second and frankly I think the expectation that anyone should believe that is insulting.

    I'm not talking about Al-Jazeera's unnamed sources, I'm talking about the actual video of the actual events where you can see the activists attacking the IDF soldiers.
    Again, watch the video. AlJazeera's cameras were there during the fighting as were their journalists.

    Yes, the protesters did resist the IDF, I was incorrect about that earlier. However, such resistance in international waters is legal as what the IDF did was an act of piracy.

    And again, they didn't fire live ammunition until they reported being fired on first. You can hear the conversations on the videos.
    From guns they never found.

    Try watching the videos before you make demonstrably false claims like this. There are several videos that clearly show this. They've uploaded a dozen videos in the past day:
    I do not trust the IDF. They lied through their teeth during Cast Lead, they're publishing the most ludicrous stories about what happened here. Their credibility is shot.

    Oh, well so long as you say so.
    Damn straight I do. The IDF is highly trained to deal with EXACTLY this kind of situation and again any idiot knows that.

    And yet it's not a kitchen knife.
    So what? Knives are used for a myriad of different things besides killing people.

    Yes, Israel shot people who could have easily surrendered. Why? Because they didn't surrender. The people surrendered on the other 5 boats and none of them were shot. Mysterious, that.
    They resisted because what the IDF was doing was ILLEGAL. You CANNOT board a ship in international waters with military force the way the IDF did.

    This is simply incorrect, for reasons that have been rehashed ad nauseum on the large thread on this topic.
    Care to point out where?

    If you'd like to try to show me where this is illegal, feel free to take it up there.
    Israel's action is a breach of the 2009 UN International Maritime Organization Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation which Israel signed. According to the article 6.1 of the SUA, the jurisdiction over the offences that a ship might have committed lays in the State whose flag the ship is flying in international waters (in this situation, Turkey).

    Israel did NOT have permission from Turkey or from any other ship's government in the flotilla to seize the ships in international waters.
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy



    The same questions that Cernk ask are the same questions I want too know.

    -What happen before they landed in the ship
    -What happen during the shootings
    -What happen after the white flag was raised

    These are the reasons that I hardly trust IDF version of the thing.
    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 06-02-10 at 04:49 PM.

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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    My bottom dollar says that Israel is trying to instigate a war.
    I think it is more likely this was a plan of Hamas to try to garner worldwide public sympathy. They thought having all those cameras at the ready would help their cause and get the embargo lifted. But, showing how those on the ship attacked the Israeli soldiers, and only then did the soldiers retaliate, me thinks their plan backfired.

    Israel had every right to board that ship... and defend themselves.
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Israel had every right to board that ship... and defend themselves.
    No, no they actually didnt according to international law.
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    Re: Israeli officials have found no weapons onboard relief convoy

    So stun grenades are not considered weapons?

    'Activists threw stun grenades'

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