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World condemns Gaza flotilla raid, Israel says aid convoy 'had weapons on board'

That does not explain why peaceful activist are armed. Seems they are not so peaceful maybe even connected to other groups.
 
Those who are having a hissy fit because Israel boarded a Gaza-bound ship (as they regularly do), then when they were attacked with weapons, responded with weapons (as almost any military or LE force would do), are playing right into the hands of those who staged this event.

If the Israelis had boarded with "intent to slaughter", they would have had and used heavier weapons than just sidearms, and they would have used them early, rather than waiting until IDF soldiers had already been seriously wounded.

This is nonsense. The "world's" reaction is based on sheer anti-Israel bias.
 
Those who are having a hissy fit because Israel boarded a Gaza-bound ship (as they regularly do), then when they were attacked with weapons, responded with weapons (as almost any military or LE force would do), are playing right into the hands of those who staged this event.

If the Israelis had boarded with "intent to slaughter", they would have had and used heavier weapons than just sidearms, and they would have used them early, rather than waiting until IDF soldiers had already been seriously wounded.

This is nonsense. The "world's" reaction is based on sheer anti-Israel bias.

Unfortunately, the world is filled with stupid people.

Here is a group with direct ties to Al Qaeda, and the naifs are eating right out of the palm of their hand. You may not be able to fool all the peopel all the time, but there is certainly no shortage of fools in the world.
 
Unfortunately, the world is filled with stupid people.

You mean this thread.

Here is a group with direct ties to Al Qaeda, and the naifs are eating right out of the palm of their hand.

And you base this on what? That Israel says so? A country caught time and time again in lies? Sure... Israel would paint the US as Al Q if it would save their ass in a PR war.

You may not be able to fool all the peopel all the time, but there is certainly no shortage of fools in the world.

Seems quite easy for Israel to fool you and your cohorts over and over again. As for the rest of the world, we have not been fooled by either Israel or the Palestinians by any measure.. we condemn them both for their acts of terror.. do you?
 
You mean this thread.



And you base this on what? That Israel says so? A country caught time and time again in lies? Sure... Israel would paint the US as Al Q if it would save their ass in a PR war.



Seems quite easy for Israel to fool you and your cohorts over and over again. As for the rest of the world, we have not been fooled by either Israel or the Palestinians by any measure.. we condemn them both for their acts of terror.. do you?

And are you fooled by terrorists? Israel presents facts. The truth is that Israel was completely justified in what they did, and the Arab nations and other foolish countries are condemning Israel because they don't want to take a strong stand against evil and terrorist (plus they want to keep good relations with the Arab nations). The world has become so hypocritical and weak. They condemn Israel but allow FGM, religious persecution, and women's rights to be violated every day by the nations that condemn the "evil" actions of the Zionist regime.
 
it would appear you do not know about the armed IDF soldiers who assaulted the vessel using ropes dropped from hovering helicopters to illegally board the ship in international waters

You mean the boat full of people whose stated intent was to run the blockade and aid and abet a genocidal terrorist organization?
 
If the Israelis had boarded with "intent to slaughter", they would have had and used heavier weapons than just sidearms, and they would have used them early, rather than waiting until IDF soldiers had already been seriously wounded.

If the Israelis had the "intent to slaughter", they could have just as easily sank the ships without risking the lives of any of their soldiers. It's what I would've done.
 
I think Israel was within its full right to do what it did, knowing that the vessel was headed for the blockade. The issue wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't know that the West was supporting Israel. It bothers me that the resources of our nations are being put towards blockades, apartheid, and detention of my own countrymen in international waters.

Israel can do what it wants. I just wish my country wasn't providing the money and arms to do it.

"Apartheid", oh sorry for a second there I thought you were talking about Israel who has full and equal rights for all Israeli citizenry regardless of race, gender, or religion, but ofcourse you must have been talking about the vast majority of the Muslim world where non-Muslims and non-Males are treated as 3rd and 2nd class citizens.
 
Unfortunately, the world is filled with stupid people.

Here is a group with direct ties to Al Qaeda, and the naifs are eating right out of the palm of their hand. You may not be able to fool all the peopel all the time, but there is certainly no shortage of fools in the world.
i keep seeing this argument about there being direct ties between the assaulted vessel and al qaeda.
but no one is willing or able to post anything to evidence such direct ties to al qaeda.
if you keep insisting there are actual ties with al qaeda, please post a link so we skeptics can see what you are going on about
 
You mean this thread.

I didn't necessarily intend it as a roll call, Pete.


And you base this on what? That Israel says so? A country caught time and time again in lies? Sure... Israel would paint the US as Al Q if it would save their ass in a PR war.

Antisemites might think so. Intelligent people and those without an agenda realize which side actually has the enormous numerical advantage when it comes to a Pr war, and don't fall for the stupid Pallywood nonsense.


Seems quite easy for Israel to fool you and your cohorts over and over again. As for the rest of the world, we have not been fooled by either Israel or the Palestinians by any measure.. we condemn them both for their acts of terror.. do you?

Typical rhetoric for Pally propagandists to claim they are somehow not taking sides. If I've seen it once, I've seen it a hundred times.
 
it would appear you do not know about the armed IDF soldiers who assaulted the vessel using ropes dropped from hovering helicopters to illegally board the ship in international waters

Where to begin with this…

First, its not an “Assault” to enter the vessel using ropes dropped from helicopters.

Second, the “illegality” of boarding it is massively in dispute with experts and intelligent people coming down on both sides of it. You speak it as if it’s an unquestionable fact, it’s not. All it does is show your obvious and plain bias in believing everything that those on the side of the boaters say and disbelieving everything said on the Israeli side, which shows no actual attempt at being objective but simply a desire to use this to hammer Israel due to your own biases.

Third, even if we assume that the IDF soldiers did “assault” them by boarding the ship and that it was “illegal” that would still make the people on the boats out to either be absolute morons or douches seeking to cause an international incident to attack said IDF soldiers. Morons, because if the intent was to kill the people on the boats they could’ve done so without putting a single person on it so to assume they were in any kind of immediate danger is idiotic. Douches because they put themselves at risk for no other reason than to create an international incident to smear Israel all in the phony name of helping Gaza.
 
No, but neither were you and if you don't see the obvious aggression in boarding a boat on international waters with guns, then your either blind or purposefully deceiving yourself.

There’s a difference between assault and aggression. Additionally, reacting to aggression with violent assault when there’s clear logical reasons to believe that said aggression is not going to be escalated to assault unless needed, is idiotic. If they wanted to simply kill them they could’ve blown up the ship without putting a person on it, or they could’ve given them better fire-arms, none of which happened and both of which would’ve been obvious. Additionally, in hindsight, we can see that such extreme violence DIDN’T happen on boats that didn’t attempt to assault the IDF soldiers showing in hindsight the notion that they were any danger to the passengers is wrong.

If someone is angry and has a clenched fist but is holding back, obviously not wanting to punch me because of the ramifications of that, then I have three choices. Disengage, Escalate, or remain in the same point(which is what the person holding back is doing). Eventually, SOMEONE is going to have to do one of the first two choices of we’re going to stand there staring at each other for ever. However, if I escalate the matter then I should not be surprised nor truly upset when that escalation is met with equal or greater response.

This is different than a situation where a guy is streaking across the room telling me “I’m going to punch you” and hitting him before he gets the swing off. In that particular case there’s clear reason to believe he’s going to act with violence and not just aggression. However such was not the case with regards to the IDF’s boarding.
 
apologies if i confused you. in the military 'air assault' training is that which teaches soldiers to conduct an assault using ropes lofted from rotary wing aircraft

Oh…hold on, now I’m confused.

So you’re saying because they’re trained to make an assault after using a rope to board a boat, that gives the passengers the right to pre-emptively strike them because of the assumption that they’re going to assault them?

Using that logic, then could you not also say that the IDF was perfectly justified going onto a ship whose stated purpose was to bypass their blockaid and infringe upon their sovereign water, thus giving them the right to pre-emptively strike them because of the assumed invasion of their border?

in your view those who were aboard the ship outside of israeli waters being assaulted by the israeli forces were wrong to defend themselves from such assault by armed soldiers
you do realize that you are advocating cowardice - don't you?

No, he’s advocating common sense.
 
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And are you fooled by terrorists?

Define terrorists. I was fooled by Bush at the start.. does that count? But under normal circumstances no, I am not fooled by anyone from the region.. I am equally skeptical of everyone.

Israel presents facts.

LOL they are about as factual in their statements as the North Korean military. Lets go through a few of their factual comments and actions of the past.

Israel has denied for years they do not torture. Yet an official report in 2000 found that they did... ups.

Israel to this date denies using white phosphorus against civilian areas in the Gaza invasion despite the massive amount of evidence showing that they did. The Israeli report on the issue cleared the IDF.. go figure. I guess all those children with white phosphorus burns and the burning rocks in gaza streets were just a fantasy.

Israel denied for years that they used human shields in the west bank and yet had to admit that they did when they were caught red handed on camera doing exactly that. They still deny using human shields in the Gaza invasion, but considering their track record I highly doubt that they are telling the truth.

These are just some of the "factual" issues with Israel over the years that I remember off hand.

And no that does not mean I trust what Hamas or other terrorist organisations say. Far from it.

The truth is that Israel was completely justified in what they did, and the Arab nations and other foolish countries are condemning Israel because they don't want to take a strong stand against evil and terrorist (plus they want to keep good relations with the Arab nations).

So it is okay for you for say Iran to board a US ship in international waters because they suspect contraband of any sort? The fact that Israel did this in international waters and did not wait till the boats were in Gaza/Israeli waters stinks of arrogance and stupidity. They think they are untouchable, and with the US sugardaddy they pretty much are. They could nuke a city and get away with it.. not even the US would get away with that... but Israel would I bet as it stands now.

The world has become so hypocritical and weak. They condemn Israel but allow FGM, religious persecution, and women's rights to be violated every day by the nations that condemn the "evil" actions of the Zionist regime.

The world is hypocritical and weak now? lets see here. Israel bombs civilians... the world minus the US condemns Israel. The Palestinians bomb an Israeli bus, the world and the US condemns the Palestinians.. all I see here is the US being hypocrites not the world.
 
So it is okay for you for say Iran to board a US ship in international waters because they suspect contraband of any sort? The fact that Israel did this in international waters and did not wait till the boats were in Gaza/Israeli waters stinks of arrogance and stupidity.

If Iran had reasonable basis to suspect that the U.S. ship was delivering weapons or other contraband to let's say revolutionary groups within Iran, legally it could do so.

Indeed, the entire Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) is premised on the legality of inspecting/boarding ships in international waters, if necessary. The aim of the PSI is to limit the proliferation of WMD, WMD components, etc. Participants include Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Turkey, the UK, and the U.S. If such inspections/boarding were not legal under international law--and that is not the case--the PSI would encounter a major defect created by immunity that would apply to the transport of WMD/WMD components while the vessels are in international waters.

In addition, the U.S. and UK, among other states, also board ships in international waters when such vessels are suspected of carrying narcotics.
 
It was organised by' Free Gaza'. They now have a site called Witness Gaza. You can listen to a woman talking about who organised the trip, that is 'Free Gaza', who they are and what happened to them when they were boarded (not the ship where people were killed)

first video for this.

WitnessGAZA - Join us live as a witness in Gaza

Don't drop your propaganda links on me Jihad Jane, the Turkish radical Islamist organization known as the Insani Yardim Vakfi or IHH which funds Hamas and other global jihadists organized this event.
 
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Don't drop your propaganda links on me Jihad Jane, the Turkish radical Islamist organization known as the Insani Yardim Vakfi or IHH which funds Hamas and other global jihadists organized this event.

Wondering whether to report you. You clearly have no ability to do much other than spread your own propaganda and personal insults. Free Gaza are the people who organised this flotilla. If you are so ignorant about that or so submerged in your own propaganda that the only thing you can do when someone politely provides you with a link where you can listen to this is start flaming then.......

This flotilla was supported from people from many different countries including the US and also many important people. Are you going to be calling them all Jihad....You are flaming in this link and like I said I should report you. Do it one more time and I will.

I am now putting you on ignore.
 
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They were attacked in international waters. The activists defended themselves. They have the right to do this.

They weren't attacked. They were boarded then the activists attacked the Israeli boarding party.

And as far as them being in international waters, here's what the Israeli ambassador to the US, Michael Oren, says about that:

GWEN IFILL: Was the ship in international waters?

MICHAEL OREN: It was.

GWEN IFILL: Is that -- was that breaking the law for the Israeli military to board the ship in international waters, what so many people at the U.N. were saying that today?

MICHAEL OREN: It is not.

Under international law, when there's a case of a military blockade against a hostile entity -- and we are talking about a hostile entity -- this is -- this is Hamas in Gaza, a country under Article 51 of the United Nations charter, the right to self-defense, has a right to defend itself self.

By the same articles of war, the United States blockaded Germany during World War II in the open seas. Israel was well within its international rights.

Israeli Ambassador: Soldiers Had 'No Choice But to Defend Themselves' | PBS NewsHour | May 31, 2010 | PBS
 
I call bull****.
The Israeli's just have a worse situation now. Egypt has opened the Gaza boarder and populations and goods are pouring into and out of Gaza like a river. Mubarak's little way of saying screw you i guess.
I've never seen such a poorly conducted raid in ages. The "edited" version of the footage release only shows Israelis getting hit with sticks, i don't see no knives or axes. Defense is defense but how one intends to justify defending oneself against sticks with shotguns is beyond me.
 
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Was listening on the news to a Dr who was on the ship and returned back to Scotland today, on crutches. He like everyone else I have heard who was on the ship found it a terrifying experience. He believes people took what they could because they thought they were fighting for their lives. It was dark, the Israelis descended apparently masked with explosions and so on.

This Cnn page has some of the German returnees describing how it was for them (3rd video)

New aid ship heads for Gaza, days after flotilla raid - CNN.com
 
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