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Thread: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate bills

  1. #61
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Why would you be FOR this???
    Do you understand that republicans are just as bad if not WORSE than demon-rats on spending!??!
    The Gov aint chopping any programs now is he??
    So where are they going to get the money? Not from the poor! They take some of it. Not from the lower middle class to the upper middle class either.

    So where are they going to get the money?
    They dont have the balls to kick illegal mexicans out to help their state economy.
    Are they going to BORROW the money!?!?


    Actually he is....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'll disagree.. the referendum identified the voters were not willing to increase their taxes to support more funding of the schools for a variety of reasons. In my own district and township, they wanted at first 9 million for a new gym, air conditioning, and solar panels. That was voted down. Then they came back 2 months later for 11.2 million and added parking, a new roof, a new heater plus the former items. Voted down. Then finally they got the message and split the amount and dropped some stuff - so it was 2.8 million for just the "necessities" and a separate voted on item for the gym, solar panels, roof and air conditioning. BOTH voted down.

    At the end of this was a rejection to increased taxes to pay for the borrowed money. All throughout, teachers unions were told they have to give up some things and start paying because the state is $33 billion in debt.

    Hence, why you're view of raising taxes is frankly... ludicrous. We just heard from voters saying very clearly, succinctly and loudly: NO. Something the unions, assembly liberals and teachers apparently do not yet understand - to their detriment.

    On this one issue, Christie does have the support of the voters. That does not translate into all issues of course.
    Disagree all you like. Doesn't change the fact that Christie is pissed that the teacher's unions didn't accept his desired cuts, and he specifically targetted the districts where the unions rejected them, specifically encouraging those voters to vote NO, regardless. Voters heard "evil unions might cause taxes to go up" and acted accordingly. Do things need to be cut? Sure. Are the unions wrong? Sure. But that doesn't equate to what he is doing.

    And as far as the voters not wanting taxes to go up, that is an appeal to the numbers logical fallacy. It wouldn't be the first time that voters were wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate bills | - NJ.com

    Man this guy didn't just talk the talk, he's walking the walk. Go Gov. Christie Go!
    A) I challenge Vicchio to accurately explain both sides (Millionaire's Tax, prop Tax rebate, prescriptions for seniors) and then defend the veto.

    B) The Governor claims he found the money to cover the prescription program. Fair enough, let's hear it.

    C) Vicchio, for two years I've been listening you support the notion that anytime a big crowd shows up, the government should listen and do what they say... (well, you actually only say that when the crowd is anti-Obama, anti-Dem) however, apply that idea, the big crowd is right, to this followup story:

    Christie veto stirs anger in Trenton

    A crowd estimated at 35,000 rallied outside the Statehouse to protest his rejection of the so-called millionaire's tax.
    My position on this story is that I don't live in N.J.

    My position on the OP is that once again, far-rigties rally behind something that 'sounds' like smart fiscal conservatism (which I support), but really don't have all the facts. Economics and public policy are complicated, there are no easy solutions--you can't give a tax rebates without paying for them. You can't provide programs to seniors without paying for them. If you cut existing programs and rebates, you will have saved money, but the political fallout may be too costly. Everybody has a grandmother.

    Note: I searched through several articles on this story and couldn't get specifics on the property tax rebates--but it appears that seniors felt they were a benefit to them. So, maybe they were on condos and town homes.

  4. #64
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Disagree all you like.
    I intend to - often and loudly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that Christie is pissed that the teacher's unions didn't accept his desired cuts, and he specifically targetted the districts where the unions rejected them, specifically encouraging those voters to vote NO, regardless.
    So you have some citation identifying or quoting him being angry (ie. "pissed" and I'm assuming you're not using the British definition). Please - do post the link since you claim it's a "fact". As you can tell, I'll disagree with your "facts" as they're not... facts at all. They're your belief or wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Voters heard "evil unions might cause taxes to go up" and acted accordingly. Do things need to be cut? Sure. Are the unions wrong? Sure. But that doesn't equate to what he is doing.
    I'm still waiting for you to describe what you think is so bad about his cuts. I asked for specifics before and you didn't provide them. Is this a trend on your part or will you continue to spout the state's liberal talking points. You're don't happen to be on the State Assembly perchance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And as far as the voters not wanting taxes to go up, that is an appeal to the numbers logical fallacy. It wouldn't be the first time that voters were wrong.
    Logical fallacy or not - that IS a fact which is in the voting record. And isn't it just so quaint that the liberals know better than everyone else. You're posts are becoming ideologically cliche. Like it or not, the voters have the last word - right or wrong.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I intend to - often and loudly.
    Good for you. As do I.

    So you have some citation identifying or quoting him being angry (ie. "pissed" and I'm assuming you're not using the British definition). Please - do post the link since you claim it's a "fact". As you can tell, I'll disagree with your "facts" as they're not... facts at all. They're your belief or wish.
    No, they are facts, even though you wish they were not. Here are quotes and the link to those quotes:

    The past month has seen Gov. Chris Christie reduce state aid to schools by $820 million, then pick a noisy fight with the state’s largest teachers union, even accusing some members on Monday of using children as "drug mules" to ferry information about whether their parents planned to vote.
    Christie has also tried to force unions to accept salary freezes by urging voters to reject budgets in districts where teachers have not agreed to take a one-year wage freeze and contribute at least 1.5 percent of their salaries toward their health benefits.
    N.J. voters make choices about school spending | - NJ.com

    Exactly as I said. This is about his fight with the teachers unions and he is trying to influence certain districts on that fact. I don't agree with the teachers unions, but he's playing hardball because of his fight with them.

    I'm still waiting for you to describe what you think is so bad about his cuts. I asked for specifics before and you didn't provide them. Is this a trend on your part or will you continue to spout the state's liberal talking points. You're don't happen to be on the State Assembly perchance?
    All I see from you are conservative talking points... which seems to be the extent of your style. Some schools are losing music, drama, and athletic programs. With positions being cut, class size will increase, and the amount of AP classes in some schools will be reduced because schools can no longer justify having small class size, which many AP's are. The Bloustein Scholarship is being put on hold, and might be eliminated. This is what I know, thus far.

    Logical fallacy or not - that IS a fact which is in the voting record. And isn't it just so quaint that the liberals know better than everyone else. You're posts are becoming ideologically cliche. Like it or not, the voters have the last word - right or wrong.
    Right or wrong, voters do have the last word. And, it's pretty easy to manipulate voters with the right words. And YOU are the only one talking about ideology, demonstrating your inability to see past it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #66
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    So the poor and middle class should pay more because they use more social services?

    In that case they would be more of a purchased product instead of a social service.

    The government allocates the funds, it's not like they can write checks how any amount they want to waste at the government's expense.

    All I'm saying is that the millionaires have the money at their comfortable disposal to pay more in taxes.

    New Jersey is financially hurting and something must be done.

    Why should a higher tax burden be put upon those who can't afford to pay? Especially during this time of economic crisis.
    why do I and others who are high net tax payers have a duty to pay for the load of those who aren't industrious enough. Why does the existence of someone create a claim on someone else's wealth

    Using your logic, as long as a government is irresponsible and panders to those who want more and more entitlements, the rich have an unlimited duty to pay and pay and pay

    what do they get in return?



  7. #67
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    A) I challenge Vicchio to accurately explain both sides (Millionaire's Tax, prop Tax rebate, prescriptions for seniors) and then defend the veto.
    When you start explaining in great deal, both sides of any issue you take a side on, I will consider this. Otherwise, what's the point? Oh wait.. I'm responding, and yet not doing as you CHALLENGE! Obviously I don't have a clue why I support Gov. Christie's veto, nor why the opposition is upset. Just blindly praddling on cause it's a "Conservative" doing it.



    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    B) The Governor claims he found the money to cover the prescription program. Fair enough, let's hear it.
    I think the program should be ended personally. Such programs merely lead to bloated gov't. Regardless of the well intended reasonings to create such.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    C) Vicchio, for two years I've been listening you support the notion that anytime a big crowd shows up, the government should listen and do what they say... (well, you actually only say that when the crowd is anti-Obama, anti-Dem) however, apply that idea, the big crowd is right, to this followup story:
    WTF are you talking about? Where do I support big crowds and Gov't should listen to them? I have no idea what you are on about here. Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Anger... woah.. he shouldn't have done it then!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    My position on this story is that I don't live in N.J.
    and....

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    My position on the OP is that once again, far-rigties rally behind something that 'sounds' like smart fiscal conservatism (which I support), but really don't have all the facts. Economics and public policy are complicated, there are no easy solutions--you can't give a tax rebates without paying for them. You can't provide programs to seniors without paying for them. If you cut existing programs and rebates, you will have saved money, but the political fallout may be too costly. Everybody has a grandmother.

    Note: I searched through several articles on this story and couldn't get specifics on the property tax rebates--but it appears that seniors felt they were a benefit to them. So, maybe they were on condos and town homes.
    Gov't shouldn't ever subsidize people.

    Doing so is too dangerous.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    The reason is, because you get more in money, and the fact this is how the system works. Plus, the fact that the rich 1% tend to not pay their fair part of the tax burden which I THINK is the truth.

    I think this sums it up pretty well.

    Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    I stumbled upon this article while getting information, and this is one of the richest men in America complain we tax him too little. So the man who is one of the richest men in America, and he thinks we tax him too little that is funny is it not. I think he on the right track the person who get more money should have to pay more in taxes.

  9. #69
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    The reason is, because you get more in money, and the fact this is how the system works. Plus, the fact that the rich 1% tend to not pay their fair part of the tax burden which I THINK is the truth.

    I think this sums it up pretty well.
    That article has some of the worst reasoning I've seen in a long time:

    The rich should pay more taxes, because the rich get more from the government. Consider defense, for example, which makes up 20% of the budget. Defending the country benefits everyone; but it benefits the rich more, because they have more to defend. It's the same principle as insurance: if you have a bigger house or a fancier car, you pay more to insure it.

    Social security payments, which make up another 20% of the budget, are dependent on income-- if you've put more into the system, you get higher payments when you retire.

    Investments in the nation's infrastructure-- transportation, education, research & development, energy, police subsidies, the courts, etc.-- again are more useful the more you have. The interstates and airports benefit interstate commerce and people who can travel, not ghetto dwellers. Energy is used disproportionately by the rich and by industry.

    As for public education, the better public schools are the ones attended by the moderately well off. The very well off ship their offspring off to private schools; but it is their companies that benefit from a well-educated public. (If you don't think that's a benefit, go start up an engineering firm, or even a factory, in El Salvador. Or Watts.)
    Just....no.

    I stumbled upon this article while getting information, and this is one of the richest men in America complain we tax him too little. So the man who is one of the richest men in America, and he thinks we tax him too little that is funny is it not. I think he on the right track the person who get more money should have to pay more in taxes.
    Buffett also thought we should have scrapped the health care bill and thinks Obama's proposed bank tax is a load of ****. Do you think he was right on those things? If not, why should we listen to him on this?
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    Re: N.J. Gov. Chris Christie swiftly vetoes 'millionaires tax,' property tax rebate b

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    I think he on the right track the person who get more money should have to pay more in taxes.
    Don't they already do this?
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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