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Thread: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

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    User JustinCase's Avatar
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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Rectify "collective" in your argument.
    That wasn't an argument, it was a definition - what do you want to be corrected?

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinCase View Post
    That wasn't an argument, it was a definition - what do you want to be corrected?
    "Perhaps you should try a different buzz-word; the programs you decry describe civilization, not socialism"


    The above was your argument, no? Your own definition included "collective"...My argument is welfare, WIC, foodstamps are collective, socialist aspects of American society..."buzz word" be damned.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There is no socialism here. And there won't be. But people will use the word to try and derail a good many decent efforts to improve life. It's a very old tactic, very unoriginal.
    There in lay the difference.. you expect all things equal regardless of effort or achievement.. everybody gets a trophy.. it's all about the Common Good..

    We can agree you don not HAVE to call it socialism, nor the President and his ilk. we can agree though it is clearly Marxist-totalitarianism!

    "from one according to their ability to those according to need"
    "Spread the wealth"
    "until everyone's house is equal"
    "Social Justice, not Equal-Justice!"
    " Give THEM the MONEY,, give THEM the MONEY"

    You can call it what you want.. it is a sad day for last stand of liberty in the world and many of you support it and defend it.. even more sad!
    CROUCH DOWN AND LICK THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU; MAY YOUR CHAINS WEIGH LIGHTLY UPON YOU; AND MAY PROSPERITY FORGET THAT YE WERE MY COUNTRYMEN. -SAMUEL ADAMS

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinCase View Post
    so·cial·ism
    Function: noun
    1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

    Perhaps you should try a different buzz-word; the programs you decry describe civilization, not socialism.
    There it is. These entitlement programs are socialist as defined by definition #1.

    socialism
    "any of various economic and political theories advocating governmental ownership and administration of the distribution of goods"

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    User Whigfield's Avatar
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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Good or bad, welfare is a form of socialism, WIC is a form of socialism, the food stamp program is a form of socialism.

    Any time private, and lawfully aquired property (money) is taken from one person with equal, unalienable rights to succeed or fail and given to another ...with identical equal, unalienable rights to succeed or fail at the hand of government, a form of socialism has occurred.
    I would have hated for you to been born poor, black, gay, African, disabled, so on...

    Really, your ideas only work because you were born as a male and probably white to American parents who had middle income jobs and could afford to provide you with financial stability to ensure a proper childhood.

    Unfortunately, the World does not work like that. The American Dream negates and ignores that unless you happen to be born into the smallest of cliques. You are doomed to a life of poverty and crime. Yes, extraordinary cases occur but they are exceptions that confirm the rule. Without some sort of leveling of society to ensure a fair start for all persons, society will break down. Look at the inner cities of the United States.

    Additionally, rights are not inalienable (see: Hannah Arendt)...rights are legal conceptions that only are applicable as long as their is one, cohersive legal system that respects them and enforces them. But that is a debate for another thread.
    "Frukta mindre, hoppas mer, ät mindre, tugga mer, Gnäll mindre, andas mer, prata mindre, säg mer, älska mer, och alla goda ting kommer att bli din" - Swedish Proverb

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Whigfield View Post

    ... could afford to provide you with financial stability to ensure a proper childhood.

    That dirty little concept of "Personal Responsibility" rears its ugly head again.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Whigfield View Post
    The American Dream negates and ignores that unless you happen to be born into the smallest of cliques. You are doomed to a life of poverty and crime.
    What a load of bullcrap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whigfield View Post
    Yes, extraordinary cases occur but they are exceptions that confirm the rule. Without some sort of leveling of society to ensure a fair start for all persons, society will break down. Look at the inner cities of the United States.
    The purported "leveling" that was done in this country with foodstamps and welfare helped create the problems in inner cities.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    "Perhaps you should try a different buzz-word; the programs you decry describe civilization, not socialism"


    The above was your argument, no? Your own definition included "collective"...My argument is welfare, WIC, foodstamps are collective, socialist aspects of American society..."buzz word" be damned.
    Yes, the dictionary definition (not mine) included the word "collective"; unless you think I am an editor of said publication, I don't see how you expect me to "rectify" that. Socialism means there is no private ownership or control of property - it becomes a "buzz-word" when it's applied to social programs that you don't like.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    That dirty little concept of "Personal Responsibility" rears its ugly head again.
    How can you expect a 10 year old child to be "Personally Responsible"? You are just lucky that the roll of the dice made you male, white and from a middle-class American family. Another roll of the dice, it could have been much different. There is the problem. Why are we penalising people for things they cannot change?

    I thinks its in everyone's self-interest that all members of society can have a level start in life and then rise and fall on their merits.
    "Frukta mindre, hoppas mer, ät mindre, tugga mer, Gnäll mindre, andas mer, prata mindre, säg mer, älska mer, och alla goda ting kommer att bli din" - Swedish Proverb

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    What a load of bullcrap.

    The purported "leveling" that was done in this country with foodstamps and welfare helped create the problems in inner cities.
    That is total hogwash. The idea of the Cadilliac welfare mom has been debunked over and over again. Scholars such as Conley in Wealth and Poverty in America have demonstrated that poverty in the United States is systemic and cyclical because of the lack of access to the tools to exit poverty.

    Foodstamps and welfare are barely subsistence mechanisms in the US. I personally don't know how people live on it.
    "Frukta mindre, hoppas mer, ät mindre, tugga mer, Gnäll mindre, andas mer, prata mindre, säg mer, älska mer, och alla goda ting kommer att bli din" - Swedish Proverb

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