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Thread: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    There is no socialism here. And there won't be. But people will use the word to try and derail a good many decent efforts to improve life. It's a very old tactic, very unoriginal.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Man, I just hate it when those conservatives support blowing up the moon. That's all they ever talk about these days. Blow up the moon this. Blow up the moon that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well you did mention that capturing the vote of the lower class will break America. :P

    If its majority interest...

    Pandering to the lower class to "capture" their vote by promising entitlements, "free" health care, and womb to tomb security will indeed break America.

    At some point, the "haves".... those expected to fund it all and simply keep their mouths shut.... will simply shrug. It is then when government guns and boots will be turned inward.

    Americas looming failure was predicted over two centuries ago with these quotes some attribute to Alexander Tytler:

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."


    and this....no words come closer to describing the birth of America, and the path we've chosen:


    "Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacencey, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."
    Last edited by webrockk; 05-23-10 at 12:25 PM.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There is no socialism here. And there won't be. But people will use the word to try and derail a good many decent efforts to improve life. It's a very old tactic, very unoriginal.
    "There is no socialism here" But wait....all I ever heard from lefties when defending Obama's socialist HCR was "what about police and fire departments, hmmm?...that's socialism...what about roads and highways, hmmm?...that's socialism"

    So...which is it?
    Last edited by webrockk; 05-23-10 at 12:32 PM.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    "There is no socialism here" But wait....all I ever heard from lefties when defending Obama's socialist HCR was "what about police and fire departments, hmmm?...that's socialism...what about roads and highways, hmmm?...that's socialism"

    So...which is it?
    "It" is more proof of the stupidity of people like you when it comes to debating socio-political structures above a 9th grade level. The McCarthy inspired belief that any kind of collective action is 'socialism' or 'communism' has completely destroyed discourse on many issues. When you define 'Health Care Reform' as 'socialism', you prove that you don't know what socialism itself is. So then what choice to 'lefties' have but to show equivalent examples of collective action in our society which by the standards you set could not be anything other than 'socialism'?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    "There is no socialism here" But wait....all I ever heard from lefties when defending Obama's socialist HCR was "what about police and fire departments, hmmm?...that's socialism...what about roads and highways, hmmm?...that's socialism"

    So...which is it?
    none of the things you listed are socialism, unless you labour under the delusion that UHC is socialism, in which case, using that logic, they would be too
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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    "It" is more proof of the stupidity of people like you when it comes to debating socio-political structures above a 9th grade level. The McCarthy inspired belief that any kind of collective action is 'socialism' or 'communism' has completely destroyed discourse on many issues. When you define 'Health Care Reform' as 'socialism', you prove that you don't know what socialism itself is. So then what choice to 'lefties' have but to show equivalent examples of collective action in our society which by the standards you set could not be anything other than 'socialism'?
    Ah...a liberal calling someone stupid. That's rich. And coming from one that hasn't the comprehension abilities to decipher my simple comment.

    You of course realize that police and fire departments are funded by those choosing to own property...and road construction and maintenence is funded by those choosing to own automobiles...But Obama's socialist HCR mandates (forces) compliance via the IRS on everyone except 'victims' of society that will receive it as a socialist entitlement.
    Last edited by webrockk; 05-23-10 at 01:00 PM.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    The recent Health Care Reform is not socialist, but Medicaid and Medicare are socialist. Social Security is socialist. A social democracy is one where much economic activity is capitalistic, but key social programs are socialist.

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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    Ah...a liberal calling someone stupid. That's rich. And coming from one that hasn't the comprehension abilities to decipher my simple comment.
    If I mentioned McCarthy, I most certainly deciphered your simple comment. It's a matter of extrapolating what is being said instead of simply browsing over it. Read this part again:

    The McCarthy inspired belief that any kind of collective action is 'socialism' or 'communism' has completely destroyed discourse on many issues.
    It is response to this:

    "There is no socialism here" But wait....all I ever heard from lefties when defending Obama's socialist HCR was "what about police and fire departments, hmmm?...that's socialism...what about roads and highways, hmmm?...that's socialism"

    So...which is it?
    In other words, your simple comment is a lazy attempt to play 'gotcha' - However the problem is that it fails on so many levels and only serves to expose your own ignorance. The American Right was inspired by McCarthy to water down issues to whether or not they were communist or socialist without ever really understanding the basic core components of either one. The Liberal response to it has been to lower the intelligence behind the defence of such programs to a level people like you can understand.

    You of course realize that police and fire departments are funded by those choosing to own property
    What if you don't own property and still pay taxes which go towards those means? No. You're wrong on this.

    ...and road construction and maintenence is funded by those choosing to own automobiles
    What about people who don't own automobiles and still pay taxes for those means? No you're wrong on this too.

    ...But Obama's socialist HCR mandates (forces) compliance via the IRS on everyone except 'victims' of society that will receive it as a socialist entitlement.
    Illogically your argument lays on the belief that the infrastructures and myriad of social programs in this country are funded only by those who use them. This is simply untrue. People who don't own property pay taxes which go towards funding fire and police departments departments. People who don't have kids pay taxes that go towards funding schools. People who don't drive pay taxes that go towards funding road maintenance. People who are U.S. citizens and live in other countries still pay taxes to the U.S. government.

    But please, since we're on the subject of liberalism. Which part about what Obama did is socialist? It's a measure implemented by the majority of industrialized countries. None of which are socialist or practice socialism. Do you know what socialism is?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-23-10 at 01:39 PM.
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    Re: Sugarcoating Socialism the French Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If I mentioned McCarthy, I most certainly deciphered your simple comment. It's a matter of extrapolating what is being said instead of simply browsing over it. Read this part again:



    It is response to this:



    In other words, your simple comment is a lazy attempt to play 'gotcha' - However the problem is that it fails on so many levels and only serves to expose your own ignorance. The American Right was inspired by McCarthy to water down issues to whether or not they were communist or socialist without ever really understanding the basic core components of either one. The Liberal response to it has been to lower the intelligence behind the defence of such programs to a level people like you can understand.



    What if you don't own property and still pay taxes which go towards those means? No. You're wrong on this.



    What about people who don't own automobiles and still pay taxes for those means? No you're wrong on this too.



    Illogically your argument lays on the belief that the infrastructures and myriad of social programs in this country are funded only by those who use them. This is simply untrue. People who don't own property pay taxes which go towards funding fire and police departments departments. People who don't have kids pay taxes that go towards funding schools. People who don't drive pay taxes that go towards funding road maintenance. People who are U.S. citizens and live in other countries still pay taxes to the U.S. government.

    But please, since we're on the subject of liberalism. Which part about what Obama did is socialist? It's a measure implemented by the majority of industrialized countries. None of which are socialist or practice socialism. Do you know what socialism is?
    Florida, where I "choose" to live, has no state income tax (yet), all infrastructure and social services are paid by property owners, gas taxes and sales taxes where one can "choose" their participation based on levels of consumption. If you "choose" to live in a state that has state income taxes....well, that's on you.

    When government mandates a program (Obama's HCR) that some are forced to fund and others benefit from without funding, a form of socialism has occurred.

    Blatant violations of "equal, unalienable rights" and private property rights have also occurred.

    Incremental acceptance of these practices... for the "common good" and continual misinterpretation of "general welfare" by lefties have brought us to this unique place in American history....staring into the abyss of socialist malaise and failure.

    See: Greece.
    Last edited by webrockk; 05-23-10 at 02:11 PM.

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