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Thread: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

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    Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) announced today that he will introduce legislation that would end the practice of targeting U.S. citizens for extrajudicial killing. Earlier this year, The Washington Post and The New York Times revealed that the Obama Administration was continuing the Bush-era policy of including U.S. citizens on lists of people to be assassinated without a trial. Kucinich has spoken out forcefully against revoking the basic constitutional rights of American citizens for simply being suspected of involvement with terrorism, and he is currently recruiting cosponsors for his bill.
    Sometimes, in order to uphold Constitutional law, you must do things that are not popular, because it is the right thing to do. Before we assassinate other Americans, because they were put on a hit list. We need to examine the legality of it. Many are put on terrorist lists because they are suspected of being terrorists, without hard evidence. This flies in the face of the Constitution, where ALL Americans are presumed innocent, until found guilty by trial.

    Yes, this is a controversial bill, but this is one of those rare instances where I agree with Kucinich. Why? Because I am an American, who loves his country and what it stands for.

    Finally, to some on the very far right, who claim that Obama is Hitler - If Obama keeps doing what he is doing, then you guys just might be right. It is certainly an unamerican thing to do, and does take us back to a nefarious time in Germany, when operations like this were the modus operandi.

    Article is here
    .
    Last edited by danarhea; 05-21-10 at 12:25 PM.
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Kucinich deserves some praise for this. Good job.
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This flies in the face of the Constitution, where ALL Americans are presumed innocent, until found guilty by trial.
    Where does the Constitution say this?

    Finally, to some on the very far right, who claim that Obama is Hitler - If Obama keeps doing what he is doing, then you guys just might be right.
    I'll use this moment to ask The Omabanistas:
    How's that "Hope" and "Change" working for you?

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Where does the Constitution say this?
    Good point - the Constitution doesn't say that.


    So - just so I'm clear here.

    Let's say Adam Gahdan is out and about and identified on the ground by the CIA. He's in a convoy of vehicles heading into a remote area known to be impenetrable area of Pakistan/Afghanistan border and will be out of striking distance in 10-15 minutes. This proposed law would state that since Gahdan is or was(?) a U.S. citizen, a predator strike on this Al Qaeda group of vehicles which would kill Gahdan would not be allowed and would be illegal.

    We're not talking about Bill Apier, a former marine Vet from Indiana who owns his own trucking business for the past 20 years who was added to the terror list by mistake getting shot in the head by a CIA sniper while pumping gas in Toledo ...
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Good point - the Constitution doesn't say that.
    As we so very often hear - All rights have limits, no rights are absolute.
    This must then include the right to trial.
    We're not talking about Bill Apier, a former marine Vet from Indiana who owns his own trucking business for the past 20 years who was added to the terror list by mistake getting shot in the head by a CIA sniper while pumping gas in Toledo ...
    Hey! That was me!

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Where does the Constitution say this?


    I'll use this moment to ask The Omabanistas:
    How's that "Hope" and "Change" working for you?
    Actually, the Constitution DOES say that.

    1) Fifth Amendment - No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Except if one is in the military, and subject to military rules, no person is to be punished without an indictment.

    Once indicted, we now go to the...........

    2) Sixth Amendment - In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

    So, you see, the Constitution is explicit in that the accused cannot be punished without an indictment from a grand jury, and then a public trial, in which his guilt or innocence is determined. It also says that the accused cannot be deprived of his life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

    Therefore, the Constitution explicitly says that you cannot assassinate a citizen on suspicion of criminal activity. It's all there, in black and white. Period. End of discussion.
    Last edited by danarhea; 05-21-10 at 03:29 PM.
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, the Constitution DOES say that.

    1) Fifth Amendment - No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Except if one is in the military, and subject to military rules, no person is to be punished without an indictment.

    Once indicted, we now go to the...........

    2) Sixth Amendment - In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

    So, you see, the Constitution is explicit in that the accused cannot be punished without an indictment from a grand jury, and then a public trial, in which his guilt or innocence is determined. It also says that the accused cannot be deprived of his life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

    Therefore, the Constitution explicitly says that you cannot assassinate a citizen on suspicion of criminal activity. It's all there, in black and white. Period. End of discussion.



    United States Code: Title 8,1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions | LII / Legal Information Institute




    1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions


    (4)
    (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or


    (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    So, you see, the Constitution is explicit in that the accused cannot be punished without an indictment from a grand jury, and then a public trial, in which his guilt or innocence is determined. It also says that the accused cannot be deprived of his life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.
    Sadly for you, I didn't take issue with any of that.

    I asked you where the Constitution states that there is a presumption of innocence. You have failed to provide a citation to that effect.

    End of discussion.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    United States Code: Title 8,1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions | LII / Legal Information Institute




    1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions


    (4)
    (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or


    (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
    And it MUST be proven that the person IS working for a foreign entity BEFOREHAND.
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And it MUST be proven that the person IS working for a foreign entity BEFOREHAND.



    I can't find that provision.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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