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Thread: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

  1. #21
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Wait, what? The right to trial only applies to people who haven't broken the law?
    That's not what he said. You are deliberately misunderstandding him,

    Police reasoaobly often kill those that break the law w/o those pople being arrested, going to trial or being convicted. They do so because those people do not follow the instructions of the police so that they CAN be arrested, tried and (possibly) convicted.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Bingo. You got it, by posing the right question. Let's see if someone can answer THAT - LOL.
    Got that Constitutional citation yet?

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Sometimes, in order to uphold Constitutional law, you must do things that are not popular, because it is the right thing to do. Before we assassinate other Americans, because they were put on a hit list. We need to examine the legality of it. Many are put on terrorist lists because they are suspected of being terrorists, without hard evidence. This flies in the face of the Constitution, where ALL Americans are presumed innocent, until found guilty by trial.

    Yes, this is a controversial bill, but this is one of those rare instances where I agree with Kucinich. Why? Because I am an American, who loves his country and what it stands for.

    Finally, to some on the very far right, who claim that Obama is Hitler - If Obama keeps doing what he is doing, then you guys just might be right. It is certainly an unamerican thing to do, and does take us back to a nefarious time in Germany, when operations like this were the modus operandi.

    Article is here
    .
    Well first of all let's get one thing perfectly clear Kucinich doesn't give a flying **** about the Constitution, he cares about the well being of suspected terrorists, that being said I support the amendment.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens



    Which U.S. Citizens have been assassinated without trial? Could we see a list?


    And what is the difference between Extrajudicial Killing, Combat, and Assassination?

  5. #25
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Well first of all let's get one thing perfectly clear Kucinich doesn't give a flying **** about the Constitution, he cares about the well being of suspected terrorists, that being said I support the amendment.
    Suspected terrorists or not, if they are US citizens, it is the duty of those enforcing the law and punishing criminals of anykind to make sure that any punishment is served only after proving they are criminals, especially with such a strong and heavily weighted charge like this.

    Lets not dilute this the way the sex offender's list [and similar measures in that aspect] have been in my opinion.
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 05-22-10 at 04:32 PM.
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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's not what he said. You are deliberately misunderstandding him,

    Police reasoaobly often kill those that break the law w/o those pople being arrested, going to trial or being convicted. They do so because those people do not follow the instructions of the police so that they CAN be arrested, tried and (possibly) convicted.
    Yes, but that isn't what is happening here. There's a difference between a police officer shooting someone during the attempt to apprehend someone and outright targeted killing. The officer has the overall goal of bringing you in peacefully so that you can stand trial. If you're unarmed and surrendering, you're (probably) not going to get killed.

    Sending out a hit squad or predator drone with the orders "kill this guy" is an entirely different thing.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How's that "Hope" and "Change" working for you?
    A lot better than "Drill, Baby, Drill!" is doing.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Suspected terrorists or not, if they are US citizens, it is the duty of those enforcing the law and punishing criminals of anykind to make sure that any punishment is served only after proving they are criminals, especially with such a strong and heavily weighted charge like this.

    Lets not dilute this the way the sex offender's list [and similar measures in that aspect] have been in my opinion.
    I support the legislation I think I made that perfectly clear.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Actually, completely.

    Presumption of innocence is not found anywhere in the Constitution, contrary to your assertion. If you disagree, you may cite the text.


    None of these things necessitate a presumption of innocence -- each of them could be in place just as easily with the presumption of guilt.

    Now, admit you made a mistake and move on.
    Ok, wonderful. If conservatives are going to be questioning every past ruling of the Supreme Court, I think Obama should do something drastic to convince them. Let's see... Here, he could start making criminal accusations against his political enemies in the media, and announce that they have to prove their innocence. Just a few of them, you know, like Rush Limbaugh and such. The hue and cry about "innocent until proven guilty" would resound across the land.

    With his tongue firmly in his cheek Obama could ask "From whence does this presumption of innocence arise, O Republican enemy?" The swift reply would be:

    FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF COURSE Coffin v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And then we can finally take a step back from the insanity of the conservatives in today's world. I mean REALLY, people, what will you think of NEXT????
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Kucinich Legislation Would End the Extrajudicial Killing of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    With his tongue firmly in his cheek Obama could ask "From whence does this presumption of innocence arise, O Republican enemy?" The swift reply would be:
    FROM THE CONSTITUTION OF COURSE
    I'm sorry... I dont see where a case from 1895 that established the presumption of innocence cites the text of the Constitutuion that mandates a presumption of innocence.

    If the case established said presumption, as your source says, how then could have said presumption been specified by the Constitution?

    To wit:
    The principle that there is a presumption of innocence in favor of the accused is the undoubted law, axiomatic and elementary, and its enforcement lies at the foundation of the administration of our criminal law.
    Note the absence of any citation from the Constitution, here or anywhere else in the decision.

    Further, the case describes the history of said presumption, almost all of which clearly -predates- the Constitution.

    And so, while the presumption of innocrence clearly exists, it exists indepenedent of the Constitution; it is neither specified by the Constitution nor protected by it.

    And then we can finally take a step back from the insanity of the conservatives in today's world. I mean REALLY, people, what will you think of NEXT????
    Clearly, your are ignorant of the specifics of this discussion, and have jumped off the deep end -- but then, liberals are like that.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 05-24-10 at 02:43 PM.

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