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Thread: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

  1. #41
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Jerry, you are comical. You say "gun free zones are hazards." Well, thats up for debate, the debate is whether you have the right to infringe on someones rights to deny you access to your firearm while on their property.

    I don't need a permit to say leave your gun in your car or else don't come on my property.

    Jerry, are you just playing games? You really think you can call the law on someone who kicks you off their property because you have a gun? Yea, and I'll file harassment charges on you quick as you please.
    Yes, although I would like to see this happen, I know fully well that it will not, and am thus playing games. It's debate, we're not here to site around and play scrabble (rivrrat would kick my ass at scrabble anyway).

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    It's already been said, but no right is being infringed upon, as nothing is forcing you to enter the building. If you want to keep your gun, then don't go in. You have a choice.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    It's already been said, but no right is being infringed upon, as nothing is forcing you to enter the building. If you want to keep your gun, then don't go in. You have a choice.
    What if there was something forcing me into the building?

    Let's say my X came over with the kids for a b-day party, had a little to much to drink and is leaving with a friend. She calls me and tells me to pick up the kids.

    You don't know I'm armed when I approach because I carry concealed. Once in your home you notice something, note that it's a firearm and tell me to leave.

    Kids aren't ready and the only person I know is my drunk X.

    I'm not leaving until my kids are good to go.

    I have a right to protect my children. I have a right in the care, control and custody of my children. By trying to force me out you are trying to violate my rights.

    Not to sound like an ass, but that's something I would be willing to go to jail for. I would have no problem telling my NCO that I got arrested for trespassing because I wouldn't leave my children alone with my drunken X and a group of strangers.

    I would be cool and civil with you, but if push came to shove, I'm not abandoning my kids.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-17-10 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Can someone tell me where this title came from?

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're creating a hazard without a justification. That's irrational.
    Except for those studies are not air-tight and are controversial at best, and attempting to make an argument based on them as if they're absolute fact is hilarious in and of themselves. If those studies alone were reason enough to actually back up your statement there would be no states that have strict gun laws or cities that outright disallow guns for the most part...all of which isn't the case. Because you have a few studies, that are contested, does not mean its absolute fact it creates a hazard. This is not the same as the notion that not wearing a hardhat on a construction site creates a hazard.

    Cease your attempts at poor logic, its almost as hilarious as you glossing over the vast majority of my posts pointing out your other flawed arguments.

    The way to be free of a Gun-Free zone and keep your patrons happy is to only allow concealed carry.
    No, that's A way, and its a poorer one because they're still aware of the possibility there may be a firearm and thus still potentially uneasy about entering the establishment.

    Face it, you're argument is that somehow YOUR right is more important than theirs. This is not the case. Rights are not tiered. You have a right to carry a firearm. A home or business owner has a right to private property. As long as those two rights do not come into conflict you both are fine. Once one person forces a violation of someone elses rights however a problem ensues. A person stating that you can not carry a gun into their business is not violating your right, because he is not keeping you from carrying a gun. You are free to still walk around with that gun wherever you like according to him, just not in his place of business. However, you forcefully entering his private property without following his rules is forcefully infringing upon his rights and thus negates your right to carry a firearm. Unlike the case with your rights, he can not magically pick up and move his building. He is not taking any action that is forcefully infringing upon someone elses rights, the gun owner is.

  6. #46
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What if there was something forcing me into the building?

    Let's say my X came over with the kids for a b-day party, had a little to much to drink and is leaving with a friend. She calls me and tells me to pick up the kids.

    You don't know I'm armed when I approach because I carry concealed. Once in your home you notice something, note that it's a firearm and tell me to leave.

    Kids aren't ready and the only person I know is my drunk X.

    I'm not leaving until my kids are good to go.

    I have a right to protect my children. I have a right in the care, control and custody of my children. By trying to force me out you are trying violating my rights.

    Not to sound like an ass, but that's something I would go to jail for. I would have no problem telling my NCO that I got arrested for trespassing because I wouldn't leave my children alone with my drunken X and a group of strangers.

    I would be coll and civil with you, but if push came to shove, I'm not abandoning my kids.
    You wouldn't have to leave your kids there. You'd just have to leave your gun in car.

    Problem solved. Your kids are safe, you're not forced anywhere. No pushing. No shoving. No officers required.

  7. #47
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What if there was something forcing me into the building?

    Let's say my X came over with the kids for a b-day party, had a little to much to drink and is leaving with a friend. She calls me and tells me to pick up the kids.

    You don't know I'm armed when I approach because I carry concealed. Once in your home you notice something, note that it's a firearm and tell me to leave.

    Kids aren't ready and the only person I know is my drunk X.

    I'm not leaving until my kids are good to go.

    I have a right to protect my children. I have a right in the care, control and custody of my children. By trying to force me out you are trying to violate my rights.

    Not to sound like an ass, but that's something I would go to jail for. I would have no problem telling my NCO that I got arrested for trespassing because I wouldn't leave my children alone with my drunken X and a group of strangers.

    I would be coll and civil with you, but if push came to shove, I'm not abandoning my kids.
    If you were armed and refused to leave when directed, the home owner would be within his rights to use his gun.

    Because the point where you refuse to leave is the point when you become an armed intruder.

    It is perfectly legal to shoot an armed intruder.

    If that scenario ever happened, go back outside, put the gun in the trunk, come back in and get the kids.

    It's the safer alternative.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Except for those studies are not air-tight and are controversial at best, and attempting to make an argument based on them as if they're absolute fact is hilarious in and of themselves. If those studies alone were reason enough to actually back up your statement there would be no states that have strict gun laws or cities that outright disallow guns for the most part...all of which isn't the case. Because you have a few studies, that are contested, does not mean its absolute fact it creates a hazard. This is not the same as the notion that not wearing a hardhat on a construction site creates a hazard.

    Cease your attempts at poor logic, its almost as hilarious as you glossing over the vast majority of my posts pointing out your other flawed arguments.



    No, that's A way, and its a poorer one because they're still aware of the possibility there may be a firearm and thus still potentially uneasy about entering the establishment.

    Face it, you're argument is that somehow YOUR right is more important than theirs. This is not the case. Rights are not tiered. You have a right to carry a firearm. A home or business owner has a right to private property. As long as those two rights do not come into conflict you both are fine. Once one person forces a violation of someone elses rights however a problem ensues. A person stating that you can not carry a gun into their business is not violating your right, because he is not keeping you from carrying a gun. You are free to still walk around with that gun wherever you like according to him, just not in his place of business. However, you forcefully entering his private property without following his rules is forcefully infringing upon his rights and thus negates your right to carry a firearm. Unlike the case with your rights, he can not magically pick up and move his building. He is not taking any action that is forcefully infringing upon someone elses rights, the gun owner is.
    I'm certain I have a Standard Issue Response for this on a thumb drive somewhere....hold on....made it while I was hanging out on AtheistIreland.com....one sec....

  9. #49
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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If you were armed and refused to leave when directed, the home owner would be within his rights to use his gun.

    Because the point where you refuse to leave is the point when you become an armed intruder.

    It is perfectly legal to shoot an armed intruder.

    If that scenario ever happened, go back outside, put the gun in the trunk, come back in and get the kids.

    It's the safer alternative.
    Why would a gun owner oppose people carrying...and how much did he have to drink....hmm...

    Anyway, I would have to pose some kind of threat to him. Packing up my kids is not a threat. No, I'm not going back out. I'm not leaving my kids with a group of drunken strangers and a drunken X, especially if the homeowner is waving around a firearm. Hell ****ing no. The home owner will just have to keep his cool and we'll be out asap.

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    Re: Donít shoot: NRA bans guns from its annual meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You wouldn't have to leave your kids there. You'd just have to leave your gun in car.

    Problem solved. Your kids are safe, you're not forced anywhere. No pushing. No shoving. No officers required.
    leaving the gun in the car is the problem, because being unarmed is a hazard.

    Home owner notices, everyone keeps their cool, I pick up kids and go. No problem.

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